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  #76  
Old 07-01-2013, 08:43 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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canOcorn: JR's investment group paid $20 million for the White Sox when they bought the team from Bill Veeck after the 1980 season. With the stadium contract and TV deals the White Sox have, I would think the White Sox are worth alot more than $500 million dollars.
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  #77  
Old 07-01-2013, 12:00 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
While not great, the farm system isn't barren and the draft philosophy has been completely overhauled.

Dunn and Danks signed market to below market value deals. Few could have predicted Viciedo was going to regress this much. They had to see what they had in Flowers. If the rest of the lineup was playing to expectations, they could afford to hide him in the lineup or replace him.

Pretty much every move the Sox have made in the last couple years went horribly wrong, but they weren't necessarily bad moves. It sucks that we're in this position, but I'm not mad about the approach of management. I certainly don't expect a ****ing explanation, let alone an apology. I'm a big boy. I can figure it out for myself.
By what standard? Take a look at the AAA and AA rosters- other than E. Johnson and J. Phegley- not much to work with.
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  #78  
Old 07-01-2013, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
By what standard? Take a look at the AAA and AA rosters- other than E. Johnson and J. Phegley- not much to work with.
Just imagine one day there might be more than 2 teams in the farm system...
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  #79  
Old 07-01-2013, 12:51 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
This article makes it clear to me that Hahn knows what's up with the Sox and that he's ready to deal.
"High impact, premium talent" - I like it. It likely means we take players a year or 2 from the majors, but that's okay too. Sure beats betting a bunch of Gillespies (no knock on him - he's a useful bench player who was ML ready).
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  #80  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:00 PM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
just imagine one day there might be more than 2 teams in the farm system...
+1
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  #81  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:01 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Just imagine one day there might be more than 2 teams in the farm system...
Have at it- Kannapolis isn't much better- AAA/AA levels are typically where you'll find anyone that is going to help < 2 years.
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  #82  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:05 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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Originally Posted by Bobby Thigpen View Post
+1
+1 to what?

Potshots are awesome- feel free to make the case for our awesome talent below AA and how our minor leaguse system is not "barren" due to the great talent we have at that level.

Kannapolis was 2nd to last place in the 1st half with a .397 winning percentage- 3/4 starting pitchers w/ERA > 5.00.
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  #83  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:09 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
Have at it- Kannapolis isn't much better- AAA/AA levels are typically where you'll find anyone that is going to help < 2 years.
Thompson, Webb, Sanchez, Castro and Walker all have legitimate shots at being contributors. The lower levels have a lot of high upside talent. Yeah, they're more than 2 years off, just like 99% of all players at the low levels. The farm system is far from good, but it's not as barren as you'd like everyone to believe. Lets see where we're at after the deadline.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #84  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:21 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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Whatever you guys are smoking- please share.

I hope you're right- I just don't see it.
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  #85  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:39 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
No resentment here. Kids don't play hockey here though like they do in Michigan. It's still a niche sport. You have no idea what's going to happen in the future. The '85 Bears only won the title one time. One injury mucks it all up. I am surprised that so many people have a hard time with the concept of cyclical success in sports. It is quite a grand statement though to say hockey will be more popular than baseball. Ain't going to happen. I love the Hawks though.

It's silly to say the Sox are at fault that they couldn't capitalize. They went all-in with Thome and Vazquez in 2006. They won 90 games. It's just some bad luck considering what happened. 2007 was an anomaly because of the injuries. They rebounded in 2008 and could have easily gone to the World Series if Quentin and Crede were healthy. The series with the Rays was winnable. Crap happens. Now they suck again like they did in the late 80s. The bad part is that Frank and Robin are not waiting in the wings.
You're right - I can't predict the future, but I'm comfortable in predicting that the Hawks will continue to thrive even if they have a few sub par seasons. The seeds have been planted. The Bulls went through some 'dark days' post-Jordan retirement and still managed to draw well. I see the same for the Hawks. Hockey will probably remain somewhat of a "niche" sport due in large part to the cost/time commitment of youth hockey (been there). But I think you'll start to see more programs in the coming years. It won't ever be as popular as baseball in terms of youth participation, but in terms of fan support of the professional franchise, I think they've already surpassed the White Sox.

I don't think the Sox were at fault based on roster moves but I think their entire marketing strategy, post '05, was weak. I can't tell you exactly what they didn't do, but it's sort of hard to fathom how a Chicago team could win a championship in baseball and only see a one year "bump" in attendance. Remember, this is a city that still treats the '85 Bears as royalty.
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  #86  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:45 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
Whatever you guys are smoking- please share.

I hope you're right- I just don't see it.
The problem is most people don't follow prospects that much, so anyone who has a chance to be a bench guy, or a back end SP gets this incredible "high upside" label.

We don't have a starting pitcher in our minor league system (and for now, discounting this years draft because we have not seen any kind of sample size of the young kids) that profiles above a number 3. We have some guys who profile and have a shot to be GOOD 3-4-5 SP, but there is not a legit number 1. Its also really tough to say, with a straight face, we have a future 3 or 4 hitter in our minors. Hawkins could maybe get there, but he is not really projectable.

This is why, even when "rebuilt", we still have a bottom 5 farm in the major leagues. It will take several years with a Hahn style draft philosophy "high upside risky players" like this year to rebuild the farm. The only way to rebuild your farm in 1 draft is to lose a ton of Type A/B guys in FA and end up with 4-6 picks in the top 3 rounds.
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  #87  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:51 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
Thompson, Webb, Sanchez, Castro and Walker all have legitimate shots at being contributors. The lower levels have a lot of high upside talent. Yeah, they're more than 2 years off, just like 99% of all players at the low levels. The farm system is far from good, but it's not as barren as you'd like everyone to believe. Lets see where we're at after the deadline.
I certainly would like you to be right, but with the possible exception of Thompson, none of these players has convinced me they have a legitimate shot to be contributors for even a team as lousy as the White Sox.
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  #88  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:54 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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There aren't any future aces, but half the organizations in baseball don't have an ace anywhere, including the MLB club. Johnson and Beck have the ability to be front line starters though.
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  #89  
Old 07-01-2013, 02:15 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
JR needs to come forward an explain what's going on with this franchise. It's great that he has a great stadium contract and is making money and hardly pays any rent. Is he happy just to make money and let the fans suffer?
I want to know what the plans are for the team, no one says anything. Are we going to rebuild? Are we going to make trades. Are we going to start investing more in our Minor League program? Are we going to spend tons of money in free agents after the season. Someone needs come forward and tell us what the plan is. Right now we have a worse record than the stinking Cubs but they at least have told their fans that they are in a rebuilding phase and be patient.
Yesterday was the first time since I moved to Florida that I did not watch a Sox game on WGN, I'm only able to get games on WGN and ESPN. We also will not be making our annual trip over to TB next week to see the Sox and Rays. I will not spend one cent of my retirement income to watch a team playing like a bunch of clowns.
Nell,
I totally understand your frustration. I don't think Sox management should be announcing to us what their plan is. It's not like I expect Hahn to take to the airwaves and say "we suck and I can't wait to blow this up by the trading deadline". But, unlike other posters, I'm not going to mock your venting of your frustration at this team.

We're all pissed at how awful this team is. Reading all the comments in the other threads about lousy service at the Cell just makes me think there is an organization-wide problem to poorly this franchise is being run at this time. I don't need Rick Hahn to tell me his plans, but I sure hope he and Sox management have a good plan for turning this organization around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
It's silly to say the Sox are at fault that they couldn't capitalize. They went all-in with Thome and Vazquez in 2006. They won 90 games. It's just some bad luck considering what happened. 2007 was an anomaly because of the injuries. They rebounded in 2008 and could have easily gone to the World Series if Quentin and Crede were healthy. The series with the Rays was winnable. Crap happens. Now they suck again like they did in the late 80s. The bad part is that Frank and Robin are not waiting in the wings.
I think the biggest problem with the Sox in recent years is that they let the farm system pretty much run dry starting in the early 2000s. I have no problem with how they went for a repeat in 2006, but already the window of opportunity was closing on this team at that point.

It isn't the unwillingness to have a high major league payroll that's brought us to this point, it's a lack of organizational depth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
Thompson, Webb, Sanchez, Castro and Walker all have legitimate shots at being contributors. The lower levels have a lot of high upside talent. Yeah, they're more than 2 years off, just like 99% of all players at the low levels. The farm system is far from good, but it's not as barren as you'd like everyone to believe. Lets see where we're at after the deadline.
I hope this is a sign that Sox managment has indeed turned things around with our farm system. Of course, any changes to improve the minors will take a few years to benefit the major league club. These things just take time to come to fruition. In the mean time, if all of our good prospects are still more than 2 years off, I can't blame fans for still wondering why our farm system has sucked to much. Of course, we've already seen Sale, Reed, Quintana and Santiago come up last year. So, we can't say the farm system hasn't produced anything. But this team needs more talent - especially on the position player side. We'll see in a couple of years how these players turn out.
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  #90  
Old 07-01-2013, 02:16 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
There aren't any future aces, but half the organizations in baseball don't have an ace anywhere, including the MLB club. Johnson and Beck have the ability to be front line starters though.
Not sure what your definition of an ace is. I think yesterday's game featured 2 aces in Sale and Masterson. I think if either was on better teams they would get more support and greater attention.
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