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  #31  
Old 06-29-2013, 01:47 PM
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RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
This is team plays in a "fog", ongoing mental and fundamental mistakes across the board- Viciedo, De Aza, Beckham, Ramirez, Flowers,etc. Three players run through the 3rd base coach yesterday- no consequences.

More injuries than usual this year, and players are always accountable- but this is approaching "Bevington" territory- and Robin does not seem to be in control.

He's one of my all time favorite Sox players- and even without experience- I thought he would be a good manager- but this is a disaster.
Believe me we are definitely in old putter pants Bevington territory. This team is awful.
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  #32  
Old 06-29-2013, 01:54 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Keep him, he was hired to be a caretaker while the team goes after a run of #1 draft picks.
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  #33  
Old 06-29-2013, 02:03 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Originally Posted by Bobby Thigpen View Post
While I don't think Robin is a great manager, all of the things people want to blame him for were there before he was hired with many of these players. Mental lapses in the field, mental lapses on the base paths, laziness, lack of "fire", etc have all been with the core group of these players since they got here. To say Robin is to blame for the faults of these players is ridiculous. They've all had these faults since the Sox got them.
This I agree with. He got saddled with a poor team, but I also think he really isn't into it. It wouldn't surprise me once Robin's time with the team is over if he just fades off into retirement and never coaches again.
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  #34  
Old 06-29-2013, 02:36 PM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Not really a point to it. This team is what it is and a new face isn't going to change that. He should only be fired if the front office has a clear-cut path to how it's going to build a winner again and I don't think that future involves Ventura. In the meantime however, let him stay until all circumstances point to him needing to leave. I doubt we're there yet.
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  #35  
Old 06-29-2013, 02:39 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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This I agree with. He got saddled with a poor team, but I also think he really isn't into it. It wouldn't surprise me once Robin's time with the team is over if he just fades off into retirement and never coaches again.
Yeah, but look at Ramirez for example. We've often been irritated by his apparent mental blunders, but this year it has gotten to be absurd. Ramirez was one of the best shortstops in the league last year. We're already approaching or have passed last year's error and unearned run totals. I recall a recent game where we had runners thrown out on the bases in five consecutive innings.
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  #36  
Old 06-29-2013, 02:53 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by cv sox fan View Post
Fire him he lost control last year when they needed a manager typical Williams move we bring a explayer to please the fans there were good managers available we go cheap kw will probably blame us fans for not showing up I can't wait to blow this disaster up maybe then will bring up some kids who want to play and get a manger to teach them discipline
This is an interesting take. Really the 2012-13 White Sox are not much different from the 1978-68 White Sox from this perspective. Once I was driving through Chicago and heard some North guy on the radio saying the White Sox needed to win only one of their last five games to go to the World Series, which shows, I guess, how that word 1967 has become more legend than reality.

But, essentially, the White Sox in 1967 had the inside track in a four-team race, playing the weakest teams in the league (although the A's had considerable good young talent). The White Sox had the inside track in 2012. In 1968, the White Sox were worse than they had been in about a generation, losing their first 10 games, losing a record number of one-run games. This team is shaping up to be the worst since Bill Veeck's second regime. In 1968, there wasn't any strong young talent, although there was bright young White Sox-developed talent playing for other teams. The Sox through the '60s had traded prospects for aging, past-their-prime talent, and the best prospects in the system were few and not quite ready. The White Sox fired their manager about 80 games into the season.

Still, Eddie Stanky was not Robin Ventura, or maybe that should be stated the other way around. Stanky was old school with discipline and had all kinds of experience, and was even named National League manager of the year in his first year managing any team at any level long before that. The White Sox firing Stanky didn't help. Things just kept getting worse. They started to improve three of four managers later, depending on whether you count the interims, but that also corresponded with the new GM who hired someone with no major league managerial experience.

Firing Stanky didn't help. For that matter, firing LaRussa didn't help. I don't think firing Ventura would help.
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  #37  
Old 06-29-2013, 03:08 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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As a society, we've moved past the "we need to throw the chief into a volcano to appease the gods" mentality when things go poorly - except when it comes to MLB managers apparently.

Blaming Ventura for the team's issues is laughable. Perhaps firing him will satisfy the bloodlust of a disappointed fanbase, but no manager can fix the larger problems with this team.
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  #38  
Old 06-29-2013, 03:25 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Call me primitive, but when the prime issues seem to be of focus, execution, baserunning and other fundamentals, etc. I would think the coaching staff would have to be scrutinized. Robin's in game decision-making has been highly questionable as well. I figured the Sox would be outplayed this year, but they're just giving games away.
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  #39  
Old 06-29-2013, 03:29 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Let him walk on his own after season end.
I think everybody's said part or all of what I'm thinking. Let him walk after this season.

He's been bad this year, but last season, he actually practiced what Ozzie had been preaching without results for years with the defense first attitude, and it showed. He helped wash away some of the bitter taste that Ozzie left in fans mouths.

He's had a bad year, but he's also had a very bad team to work with. He shouldn't be brought back, but outside of some poor decisions, he hasn't merited firing. He hasn't said anything stupid in the media like Ozzie did on a seemingly weekly basis, he doesn't throw players under the bus, and while he's making poor decisions, at least he's still trying. Firing him doesn't solve anything with this team. It doesn't start the rebuild any faster, and it doesn't make this team a contender. All it would accomplish is shaming a Sox legend who tried really hard to help the team, but fell short of expectations.
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  #40  
Old 06-29-2013, 03:46 PM
BigKlu59 BigKlu59 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
I think everybody's said part or all of what I'm thinking. Let him walk after this season.

He's been bad this year, but last season, he actually practiced what Ozzie had been preaching without results for years with the defense first attitude, and it showed. He helped wash away some of the bitter taste that Ozzie left in fans mouths.

He's had a bad year, but he's also had a very bad team to work with. He shouldn't be brought back, but outside of some poor decisions, he hasn't merited firing. He hasn't said anything stupid in the media like Ozzie did on a seemingly weekly basis, he doesn't throw players under the bus, and while he's making poor decisions, at least he's still trying. Firing him doesn't solve anything with this team. It doesn't start the rebuild any faster, and it doesn't make this team a contender. All it would accomplish is shaming a Sox legend who tried really hard to help the team, but fell short of expectations.



That would be my take on it. Well stated.. The paper tiger of the line up he was given has devolved into a crumpled ball fit for the nail on the end of a stickwielding,yellow vested, highway cleaning effort. Christ, he must feel like a T-Ball coach with some of the boners they are pullin...

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  #41  
Old 06-29-2013, 03:51 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
As a society, we've moved past the "we need to throw the chief into a volcano to appease the gods" mentality when things go poorly - except when it comes to MLB managers apparently.

Blaming Ventura for the team's issues is laughable. Perhaps firing him will satisfy the bloodlust of a disappointed fanbase, but no manager can fix the larger problems with this team.
Not bloodlust- I just believe the continuous drumbeat of lazy, unfocused, stupid baseball is partly attributed to the manager in charge.

I usually have a very long fuse at making a change in the manager- and this year is flushed down the toilet already- but this team is becoming the laughingstock of baseball, and the players aren't just "slumping"- they are regressing. If this manager had any name other than "Robin Ventura"- he would be held much more accountable for the team's performance.

This team isn't a contender by any means- but they are embarrassing themselves on a daily basis (twice yesterday).

Routine fly ball to right center drops between the CF & RF for a "triple"? Ball through the SS's legs to lose a game? Pop up to the infield to close out a game drops to tie the game up? 0-9 pitcher with 5+ ERA shuts you down on a 4 hitter? Blow a 5-0 lead, lose 19-10, 3 players run thru your 3rd base coach, OF's dont's know how many outs? Blow an 8-5 lead and lose 9-8 in the bottom of the 9th? Your back up catcher swings on 1-0 following a 4 pitch walk?

All in one week of White Sox baseball.

No one is benched. No one is sent down. No adjustments in any way- I know the roster is mediocre and the minors are barren- but the manager has to do SOMETHING.

If the manager isn't accountable for this performance, WHEN is the manager EVER accountable?

Not a witch hunt- just the most incompetent White Sox team I can remember-and I've been a diehard since 1971.
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  #42  
Old 06-29-2013, 03:51 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Yeah, but look at Ramirez for example. We've often been irritated by his apparent mental blunders, but this year it has gotten to be absurd. Ramirez was one of the best shortstops in the league last year. We're already approaching or have passed last year's error and unearned run totals. I recall a recent game where we had runners thrown out on the bases in five consecutive innings.
I should clarify. I think Robin sucks as a manager, but there's many more problems larger than that.
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  #43  
Old 06-29-2013, 04:44 PM
aryzner aryzner is offline
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There isn't a manager on the planet that could get this team to win consistently, so no. Let him ride out the rest of the year. The Sox aren't going anywhere anyway.
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  #44  
Old 06-29-2013, 04:53 PM
Red Barchetta Red Barchetta is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
This I agree with. He got saddled with a poor team, but I also think he really isn't into it. It wouldn't surprise me once Robin's time with the team is over if he just fades off into retirement and never coaches again.
I agree. That fact that he was actually hired for the job was such a shock. More like the team approached him instead of him expressing interest.

Over the years, I never ever got the impression that Ventura wanted to coach or manage. I think the SOX just needed a good, fan-favorite and cheap manager to run things while they try to rebuild and move past the Ozzie era.
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  #45  
Old 06-29-2013, 06:09 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Just because the team has many problems doesn't excuse Ventura for being one of them. And a pretty big one at that.
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