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  #16  
Old 06-25-2013, 03:57 PM
ND_Sox_Fan ND_Sox_Fan is offline
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If the trade comparison is about the money, Ethier is owed $69 million from 2014 through 2017, while Alexei and Jake are owed a combined $60 million from 2014 through 2016 (Jake through '15 and Alexei through '16).

Further, the full-year contracts for these players are $13.5 for Ethier this year, while Jake is taking home $14.5 and Alexei $7.

Therefore, using any likely proration period, the money in the contracts over the lifetime are roughly equal (especially with the $5 million sent to the Sox).

Anyone taking the Alexei contract is certainly eating a liability, and while Jake might offer some real value over the next two seasons, he will likely not be the deciding factor in the Sox's ability to contend over that time.
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  #17  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:24 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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I see Ethier has won a gold glove. I have to admit I haven't seen enough of him to gauge his defensive abilities...is that a legit gold glove win, or another BS pick? Considering he's not a Derek Jeter type, I would think its legit, but I don't know. Anyone with some insight on his defense?

Seems questionable the Dodgers would be interested in trading for a pitcher on the DL, but hey KW did it, so who knows.
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:30 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND_Sox_Fan View Post
If the trade comparison is about the money, Ethier is owed $69 million from 2014 through 2017, while Alexei and Jake are owed a combined $60 million from 2014 through 2016 (Jake through '15 and Alexei through '16).

Further, the full-year contracts for these players are $13.5 for Ethier this year, while Jake is taking home $14.5 and Alexei $7.

Therefore, using any likely proration period, the money in the contracts over the lifetime are roughly equal (especially with the $5 million sent to the Sox).

Anyone taking the Alexei contract is certainly eating a liability, and while Jake might offer some real value over the next two seasons, he will likely not be the deciding factor in the Sox's ability to contend over that time.
Good breakdown.

As for Alexei, I'm not sure it is certain that that would be eating a liability. His tools don't seemed to have diminished, only his execution. He still makes fantastic plays and turns the double play well, his arm is still there and he's running the bases as well or better than ever. If I was looking for a guy to score from first, I'd take Ramirez every day of the week. I wouldn't be surprised if he bounced back with a change of scenery.
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  #19  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:42 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Fastball23 View Post
Withrow throws over a 100 mph.
Yeah, but why are we acquiring relievers?

And saying Magill has control problems would be being incredibly nice.

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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Ethier definitely could be one of those guys I'd be willing to take a flyer on and hope that he just needs to get away from Mattingly (who he's been butting heads with most of this season), but yeah, that is a lot of contract to take on. I'm not sure I'm interested in the Sox rolling the dice on a guy whose signed through 4 more years through age 35.
Yeah, they'd have to give us a ton more in prospects for this to make sense. Unless the team thinks Either could break out and then be dealt for more prospects. Certainly isn't in the future plans given his age.
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  #20  
Old 06-25-2013, 04:43 PM
ND_Sox_Fan ND_Sox_Fan is offline
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Acquiring Ethier at this time reminds me of when the Sox got Rios in 2009. Prior to this season for Ethier and '09 for Rios, each annually hit in the .290s with OBPs around .350 (Ethier slightly higher). The difference is that Ethier has a little more power where Rios has the ability to steal more bases. In 2009, Rios hit .264 with a .317 OPB for Toronto (108 games), while Ethier is hitting .252 with a .335 OPB this season for LAD (72 games).

I say this from a position of comparing stat and story lines, as I haven't been able to see Ethier play much this year.
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  #21  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:00 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Yeah, they'd have to give us a ton more in prospects for this to make sense. Unless the team thinks Either could break out and then be dealt for more prospects. Certainly isn't in the future plans given his age.
With all the salary the Sox would give up, they'd have to take on a player such as Ethier I'd imagine.

Amongst the prospects here we have the Dodger's top rated hitting prospect, their closest rotation prospect and a potential closer. With Peavy on the DL and Ramirez's questionable play of late, how much can you expect?

If the Sox end up trading Rios, we'll have a somewhat comparable player to replace him, numerous quality prospects (ok, I see you don't think much of Magill but Sickels had him rated B- preseason) and a reduced payroll. Sounds like a pretty good start to me.
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  #22  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:15 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Just reading an article on Mike Scioscia's Tragic Illness (the website), even while trashing Brown, it still seems he's considered to have upside...so who knows, maybe he might still have value for us too.
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  #23  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:44 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Just reading an article on Mike Scioscia's Tragic Illness (the website), even while trashing Brown, it still seems he's considered to have upside...so who knows, maybe he might still have value for us too.
Oops, I meant Gordon not Brown.
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  #24  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:15 PM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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Amongst the prospects here we have the Dodger's top rated hitting prospect, their closest rotation prospect and a potential closer. With Peavy on the DL and Ramirez's questionable play of late, how much can you expect?
And the other prospect is Dee Gordon a 25 year old, left handed hitting, speedy shortstop who hit well and stole a lot of bases in the minors. This deal, if it happens, sounds like it adds young talent to the organization as well as a good lefty hitting outfielder in Ethier and may provide some salary relief, too.

That does not sound like a bad start to the Sox rebuilding efforts this year.
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  #25  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:37 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
With all the salary the Sox would give up, they'd have to take on a player such as Ethier I'd imagine.

Amongst the prospects here we have the Dodger's top rated hitting prospect, their closest rotation prospect and a potential closer. With Peavy on the DL and Ramirez's questionable play of late, how much can you expect?
First, we can wait until Peavy gets off the DL and get his value up. After all, we traded for him while he was on the DL.
How do these prospects rate among the best in baseball? Is the Dodger system good?
Strange that they're sending us money when they're taking all that payroll.
Sox love hard throwers. Hope his pitches have some movement.
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  #26  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:41 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Why are they sending us money? I would assume those prospects are extremely highly rated. Ethier has little value at all.

The Sox love hard throwers.
As you said, Ethier has little value. If they want someone to take on his contract, they'll have to pay part of it.

I don't know about the other 3 prospects, but Dee Gordon isn't much. He's 25 and with over 600 PAs in the majors his OPS is barely over .600.
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  #27  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:47 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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When I hear Dodgers-Sox trade, I think of the KW Baldwin-to-Dodgers trade and the Berry/Barry mess.
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  #28  
Old 06-25-2013, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
As you said, Ethier has little value. If they want someone to take on his contract, they'll have to pay part of it.

I don't know about the other 3 prospects, but Dee Gordon isn't much. He's 25 and with over 600 PAs in the majors his OPS is barely over .600.
That makes it a marginal deal, probably. Crain is worth 1 top 100 prospect, Peavy if healthy at least 2, and Alexei is probably worth 1.
And then we have to take Ethier. Rather have a real prospect than the money.
Why take Dee Gordon?
Looks like a Williams trade.
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  #29  
Old 06-25-2013, 07:39 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That makes it a marginal deal, probably. Crain is worth 1 top 100 prospect, Peavy if healthy at least 2, and Alexei is probably worth 1.
And then we have to take Ethier. Rather have a real prospect than the money.
Why take Dee Gordon?
Looks like a Williams trade.
Yep. Pretty terrible.
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  #30  
Old 06-25-2013, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That makes it a marginal deal, probably. Crain is worth 1 top 100 prospect, Peavy if healthy at least 2, and Alexei is probably worth 1.
And then we have to take Ethier. Rather have a real prospect than the money.
Why take Dee Gordon?
Looks like a Williams trade.
I can't imagine Alexei Ramirez right now would fetch a Top 500 prospect straight up.

I have no idea where you could possibly even gauge these numbers right now.
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