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  #181  
Old 06-24-2013, 03:50 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I need a scouting report on guys who play from other teams who I don't get to see regularly. I need a scouting report on minor league or amateur players who I pretty much never see out of select clips that have been uploaded to YouTube. I don't need to use a scouting report as a crutch for a guy who has thrown 200+ innings for the Sox. I've watched a number of Quintana's starts, I am telling you, based on what I've seen from him, he's a perfectly fine option as a SP for even a good team. I was wary of him when he came up as well, but he's progressively gotten better as he has come along, he's hitting the mid-90s with his fastball now (FanGraphs has his max velocity at 94-95).

Again, you want to disagree with that assessment, that's fine, but people are disagreeing with you based on what we have seen from the guy, not being spoon fed **** by Hawk. We're all amateurs on this board, nobody's opinion is more or less valid than anyone else's, despite what you may think.
You're welcome to have your impression, but my impressions are at least somewhat validated by the resources that are out there. When I get dumped on for it, I start to feel like perhaps people aren't doing their due diligence.

Regardless, I don't think Quintana's going anywhere anytime soon (as, at the very least, scouts are not overly fond of him). So will get to see firsthand what becomes of him.
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  #182  
Old 06-24-2013, 03:52 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
You're welcome to have your impression, but my impressions are at least somewhat validated by the resources that are out there. When I get dumped on for it, I start to feel like perhaps people aren't doing their due diligence.

Regardless, I don't think Quintana's going anywhere anytime soon (as, at the very least, scouts are not overly fond of him). So will get to see firsthand what becomes of him.
Then link these articles that say he sits at 89 and gets by on deception. I already know they're BS, but would love to read them.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #183  
Old 06-24-2013, 03:55 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Then link these articles that say he sits at 89 and gets by on deception. I already know they're BS, but would love to read them.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jose+quintana+scouting+report
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  #184  
Old 06-24-2013, 03:58 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Bluff called.
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  #185  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:05 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Bluff called.
Or, you know, click some of the links.

I'm not feeling overly helpful considering you chose to insult me instead of discuss.
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  #186  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:12 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Or, you know, click some of the links.

I'm not feeling overly helpful considering you chose to insult me instead of discuss.
Well, that search doesn't lead me to any articles that aren't a year old. I must have misunderstood when you claimed that your opinion was backed by professionals. None of those articles are even relevant.

*edit*
Considering in the nearly 10 years I've been on the board that I've spent 1 week banned, I don't consider myself a troll.
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  #187  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Or, you know, click some of the links.

I'm not feeling overly helpful considering you chose to insult me instead of discuss.
Because they don't ****ing exist. Clicking through the links provided, the only ones with a negative outlook on Quintana still say he tops out in the high 80s or low 90s with the fastball. He hasn't been that pitcher all year long.
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  #188  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:19 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
The Tigers aren't as good as some make them out to be.

They are winning divisions because they beat up on AL Central teams that beat themselves. If we stopped beating ourselves with our current roster, we would be neck-and-neck with them, just like 2012.

I realize, though, that certain players on our team have a predilection to making dumb mistakes (Flowers, DeAza, Alexei) and need to be changed out, because they don't produce enough offensively to overcome their dumb play and poor fundamentals. Others on our roster need to go because they are old and can no longer produce. Replace these players with fundamentally sound players, and we will compete again.

We will overcome the Tigers if/ when we have good pitching, play fundamentally sound baseball with good fielding, and draft/develop our own core of 3-4-5 hitters.

We have good pitching. We can get the second part over two offseasons. The third part requires shrewd drafting and top-notch player development.
Was this meant to be a joke? The Tigers have questions in the bullpen, but they have the 2 best SP in the AL Central, Probably the 2 best hitters in the Central, they are a really good team, a world series caliber team.

We have Chris Sale.....

In terms of the 3 things you need, you realize they have to happen all at once? I am not a huge Quintana fan, but he is fine as a back end guy, better than a 5, not an ideal 3, probably a 4. However, it means we have to find a number 2 when Peavy leaves, since developing a 3-4-5 hitting core is going to take 3 or 4 years, and we don't have any of those in our system now, and have not produced one in what, 15 years?
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  #189  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:42 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I feel like no one here reads a scouting report that isn't given by Hawk. Seriously. What I've said shouldn't be new knowledge or even questioned.
Jose Quintana used a new offseason strength conditioning program heading into the 2013 season with Allen Thomas to improve his stamina and arm strength. This arm strength conditioning was done to address his struggles in September of last year when he ran out of gas after pitching more innings than he ever had before in his career. The added benefit to this new conditioning is that he has added mph to his fastball this season. If you don't believe me that Quintana's stuff has improved this season, check out this article from CBS Sports (not written by Hawk Harrelson) that highlights Quintana's increased velocity in 2013. It even uses Fangraphs as a reference. He averages 91.3 mph this season and not 89. Velocity topping out at about 94 as others have mentioned.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/ne...ocity-increase
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  #190  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Foulke You View Post
Jose Quintana used a new offseason strength conditioning program heading into the 2013 season with Allen Thomas to improve his stamina and arm strength. This arm strength conditioning was done to address his struggles in September of last year when he ran out of gas after pitching more innings than he ever had before in his career. The added benefit to this new conditioning is that he has added mph to his fastball this season. If you don't believe me that Quintana's stuff has improved this season, check out this article from CBS Sports (not written by Hawk Harrelson) that highlights Quintana's increased velocity in 2013. It even uses Fangraphs as a reference. He averages 91.3 mph this season and not 89. Velocity topping out at about 94 as others have mentioned.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/ne...ocity-increase
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  #191  
Old 06-24-2013, 05:02 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Foulke You View Post
Jose Quintana used a new offseason strength conditioning program heading into the 2013 season with Allen Thomas to improve his stamina and arm strength. This arm strength conditioning was done to address his struggles in September of last year when he ran out of gas after pitching more innings than he ever had before in his career. The added benefit to this new conditioning is that he has added mph to his fastball this season. If you don't believe me that Quintana's stuff has improved this season, check out this article from CBS Sports (not written by Hawk Harrelson) that highlights Quintana's increased velocity in 2013. It even uses Fangraphs as a reference. He averages 91.3 mph this season and not 89. Velocity topping out at about 94 as others have mentioned.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/ne...ocity-increase
Hi Foulke,

This is a nice piece. I did, however, say he sits 89-91, which he pretty much does all game. Guys that sit in that (or any) range tend to top out higher. But it isn't like he's throwing a ton harder. He's still in the soft tosser range, and that four seamer is still as straight as it gets.
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  #192  
Old 06-24-2013, 05:08 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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It's pointless to have a discussion with somebody that thinks that a LH starter who sits in the low 90's and can hit 94 is a soft tosser.
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  #193  
Old 06-24-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
It's pointless to have a discussion with somebody that thinks that a LH starter who sits in the low 90's and can hit 94 is a soft tosser.
Hey, it's not like a regular rotation pitcher in MLB doesn't routinely hit 94-95 all game long.
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  #194  
Old 06-24-2013, 05:26 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Hey, it's not like a regular rotation pitcher in MLB doesn't routinely hit 94-95 all game long.
If anyone wants to actually talk and not post flame-bait, that would be great.

91 mph on a straight fastball isn't a plus. It's not fast enough to miss bats. It's effectiveness comes from the slot, which eventually players are going to get used to.
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  #195  
Old 06-24-2013, 05:40 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is offline
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Because everybody needs a 96 MPH fastball in order to succeed.
Quintana is at his strongest whenever he can work both sides of the plate. He keeps the ball down well. He still uses his fastball a little bit too much, but he is improving his changeup and cutter. Besides, the guy is only 24 years old, and still has a lot of room to improve.
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