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  #106  
Old 06-22-2013, 02:17 PM
captain54 captain54 is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
One thing I've learned is that the Sox are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The fans will find something to cry about no matter what direction they take.
that's really a bunch of crap.. the diehards that have been around awhile have been plenty patient, endured a lot of frustration and heartbreak with this team for a lot of years, yet keep coming back. Cut the passionate and knowledgeable White Sox fan in 2013 some slack, please.
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  #107  
Old 06-22-2013, 02:23 PM
captain54 captain54 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post

I could buy the idea that the Sox need to do a total teardown if they had to compete with the likes of the Yankees or Rangers or Cardinals every year, but right now that doesn't look like the case.
Ultimately, to win the World Series, the Sox would have to go thru the elite teams in MLB, which would include the Yankees, Rangers and Cardinals.. so I'm not following you... If you mean competing in a BS division every year I could see your point.. but what's wrong with building a team to dominate? Why settle for just being competitive and playing for a winning record, yet missing the playoffs, which has been the norm for a while now?
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  #108  
Old 06-22-2013, 03:08 PM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
When did medicine stop being a science?

If your doctor tells you not to do something because, say, he thinks it will cause arthritis, it's both a guess and based on science. He doesn't know that you will get arthritis, but he's pretty sure based on previous cases. Doctors saying Sale will likely get hurt bad is not any different.
This screed never gets old with you does it?
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  #109  
Old 06-22-2013, 05:54 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Which doctors have said this about this Sale? And they're not his doctors, as they would be violating HIPAA.
Your statement is built on the premise that teams, television programs that analyze baseball, websites that analyze baseball, etc. don't hire or at least consult with sports medicine professionals. I'm going to be nice and leave it at that.

It doesn't have to be Sales personal doctor. That's not how it works. You don't have to be my doctor to give me sweeping medical advice, just a doctor. What Sale does for a living, the way he does it, is probably the largest red flag in sports medicine in today's game.

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Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
This screed never gets old with you does it?
It's stubbornness like this that sometimes makes me wonder whether its the team's fault or the fans. A large portion of our fanbase might be more stubborn than the team. Which feeds off which? I don't know, but I'm starting to feel like a portion of our fanbase might actually deserve this team.

Last edited by blandman; 06-22-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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  #110  
Old 06-22-2013, 06:51 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
In any statistical study there are outliers. Just the fact that one is a MLB pitcher seems to carry a lot of risk these days. They seem so incredibly fragile as a group. You have to look at the individual some times, not just the aggregate. Some people are not just going to beat the odds, they're going to trounce them. Also, didn't I read somewhere about a year ago comparing Sale's mechanics and delivery to a pitcher they called the Big Unit?
Here it is.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-not-ludicrous
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  #111  
Old 06-22-2013, 08:03 PM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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It's stubbornness like this that sometimes makes me wonder whether its the team's fault or the fans. A large portion of our fanbase might be more stubborn than the team. Which feeds off which? I don't know, but I'm starting to feel like a portion of our fanbase might actually deserve this team.[/QUOTE]

All I can say is that they fans don't make one trade or sign one free agent. I went to my first Sox game in 1960. Since then I have seen one Sox team go to the World Series. You telling me that I deserve to watch Tyler Flowers let another pitch get by him?
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  #112  
Old 06-22-2013, 08:33 PM
Huisj Huisj is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Verlander's looking somewhat human already, having his worst season in 7 years... Maybe it's just a fluke bad half or maybe it's the wear and tear of pitching over 1,000 innings the last 4 seasons...
This is a tough point to agree with. Don't forget his 11-17 season 5 years ago.

This year he had two weirdly bad starts back to back in May (in one he still struck out 9 in 5 innings), and one lousy start last week. His K rate is at a career best so far, his HR rate is normal, line drive rate, ground ball rate, flyball rate, etc. are all about normal. Basically he's walking just a few more people and seemingly has had rather bad luck on batted balls (bad defense?) with a crazy high .344 BABIP. I guess maybe his fastball is down a little, but he's always kind of seemed like someone who threw it all different speeds depending on the situation anyway.
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  #113  
Old 06-22-2013, 11:55 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by captain54 View Post
Ultimately, to win the World Series, the Sox would have to go thru the elite teams in MLB, which would include the Yankees, Rangers and Cardinals.. so I'm not following you... If you mean competing in a BS division every year I could see your point.. but what's wrong with building a team to dominate? Why settle for just being competitive and playing for a winning record, yet missing the playoffs, which has been the norm for a while now?
Because you really just have to get to the playoffs, man. The World Series last year featured the 4th or 5th best team from the NL vs. the 7th best team from the AL. All those more "dominant" teams didn't do **** in the postseason. I'm not saying don't try and build the best team you can, I'm just saying, the bar you have to reach isn't as high in the AL Central.
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  #114  
Old 06-23-2013, 01:09 AM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
It's stubbornness like this that sometimes makes me wonder whether its the team's fault or the fans. A large portion of our fanbase might be more stubborn than the team. Which feeds off which? I don't know, but I'm starting to feel like a portion of our fanbase might actually deserve this team.
Explain to me the stubbornness here. Is it the refusal to cow to your fanatical zeal about the inevitability that Sale is destined to devastating injury?

Please enlighten me.

(In case you are wondering, I really don't want to you attempt to enlighten me.)
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  #115  
Old 06-23-2013, 01:19 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I am not worried about Sale getting an injury - anyone can get injured. But I am worried about him losing effectiveness due to being overworked by the manager. I know I've said it a lot lately, but we have 4 top flight young pitchers, and Ventura over-works all 4 of them.
And there's no reason to be taxing any pitcher in this lost season.
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  #116  
Old 06-23-2013, 01:54 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
Explain to me the stubbornness here. Is it the refusal to cow to your fanatical zeal about the inevitability that Sale is destined to devastating injury?

Please enlighten me.

(In case you are wondering, I really don't want to you attempt to enlighten me.)
Once again, right there. Exactly the kind of stubbornness the team has. Any notion on the science of baseball injuries affecting those that do things proven to cause them, and it's "fanatical zeal". Not the disbelief of what's proven itself time and again in baseball mind you. Everyone else on the planet is wrong. History is wrong. Doctors are wrong. Sale doesn't have an increased chance of injury. Why? White Sox, that's why.
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  #117  
Old 06-23-2013, 01:57 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Once again, right there. Exactly the kind of stubbornness the team has. Any notion on the science of baseball injuries affecting those that do things proven to cause them, and it's "fanatical zeal". Not the disbelief of what's proven itself time and again in baseball mind you. Everyone else on the planet is wrong. History is wrong. Doctors are wrong. Sale doesn't have an increased chance of injury. Why? White Sox, that's why.
If you think that's what people are arguing, you're off your rocker
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  #118  
Old 06-23-2013, 05:15 AM
JoeYoung JoeYoung is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
There's no better way to back up your point, then linking to an article from Bleacher Report, apparently.
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  #119  
Old 06-23-2013, 09:55 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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There's no better way to back up your point, then linking to an article from Bleacher Report, apparently.
That's funny. I'm a resident old school old fart and have taken my share of whup for not bowing at the altar of everything saber. A very prominent and learned poster here keeps telling us that Sale's pitching arm is destined to go lame. I mean it's predetermined science. All I've been trying to do is show that is not necessarily the case. I have a limited amount of time and happened to pull up the article I linked. Not a big fan of BR, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to summarily dismiss everything they write. Just like I'm not going to assume that Sale is destined to be a left handed Mark Prior. Sometimes you just can't ****ing win around here.
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  #120  
Old 06-23-2013, 10:14 AM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeYoung View Post
There's no better way to back up your point, then linking to an article from Bleacher Report, apparently.
Yes, Bleacher Report is generally awful, but even a broken clock can be right twice a day. :P
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