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  #46  
Old 06-21-2013, 12:14 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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If you want a complete Royals/rays/Pirate start-over, you trade Sale and Reed. If you are doing this to compete in 2 years, you keep them. The 2 year plan depends on getting a lot out of Peavy, Rios and Crain.
I'd keep Alexei - who else do we have? And he wouldn't fetch squat anyway. I'd find a catcher who can catch the ball.....it's easier to find offense at other positions. Is Viciedo developing or is he "is what he is"? I'd probably keep De Aza - he can play better D than he has been. His O isn't terrible, and he'd yield little in return. Need a 3B, 1B and some outfielders.
And above all Ventura has got to stop pitching these young pitchers so many innings, using Reed (who the MLB network said this morning has lost 2 mph of of his fastball this year) 3/4 days, etc.
I have a feeling Crain is a guy we are going to get more for now than in July. Take the Red Sox for example, Bailey just lost the closing job, Hanranhan is hurt, they need a closer. Even if Tazawa (spelling?!) does well, who takes his spot? Crain makes a lot of sense there.
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  #47  
Old 06-21-2013, 12:55 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
If you want a complete Royals/rays/Pirate start-over, you trade Sale.
No way do I trade Sale. What for? So I can get a prospect who hopefully becomes half the pitcher Sale is when I have Sale wrapped up at a reasonable rate until 2019? If the Sox can't rebuild by 2019, I don't think trading Sale is going to help much.

The Sox can trade Rios, Crain, Reed, maaaaybbeee Konerko if he hits well over the next few weeks. They might even be able to trade Lindstrom or Thornton for a decent prospect if some teams are desperate for bullpen depth. That's a decent start, along with Floyd coming off the books. The Sox will have a lot of payroll available over the next two years, I just don't see the point in trading Sale.
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Last edited by TheVulture; 06-21-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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  #48  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:08 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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No way do I trade Sale. What for? So I can get a prospect who hopefully becomes half the pitcher Sale is when I have Sale wrapped up at a reasonable rate until 2019? If the Sox can't rebuild by 2019, I don't think trading Sale is going to help much.

The Sox can trade Rios, Crain, Reed, maaaaybbeee Konerko if he hits well over the next few weeks. They might even be able to trade Lindstrom or Thornton for a decent prospect if some teams are desperate for bullpen depth. That's a decent start, along with Floyd coming off the books. The Sox will have a lot of payroll available over the next two years, I just don't see the point in trading Sale.
See, I think now is the perfect time to EXPLORE trading Sale. You have all the power. But lets say the Rangers called, and offered you something stupid, Profar, Olt, Martin Perez and Joey Gallo or Cody Buckel, how do you say no to that with the state of this team?
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  #49  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:22 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is online now
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Sale is not untouchable, but any deal would really have to bring in star players and core pieces, otherwise no reason to deal. The Sox need to handle this carefully, but should keep their options open.
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  #50  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:25 PM
Stanley Stanley is offline
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As great as having a home grown talent like Sale as a White Sox is, he should not be viewed as untouchable, and if it makes sense you have to deal him to someone willing to pay premium. Very few players in this game are truly untouchable. Yes, he'd be nice to have to build a staff around, but things look really bleak for the Sox for the foreseeable future, so I say deal him and start stocking up on young (and possibly less injury prone) talent. Basically, you have the White Sox banking that he will stay relatively DL stint-free and live up to his contract, so if another team feels the same way and will give up some top prospects for him, you have to do it and start the rebuild process.

Every team in this division looks like it has plans to, and in some instances is capable of making the playoffs, besides the White Sox and Twins. The Twins started a half-assed rebuild last off-season and it hasn't done them much good. I fear and expect the Sox will do just the same under Hahn.

I would without a doubt rather be bad for a few years than continually mediocre. You get nothing for being mediocre. You get prospects, top talent and a chance to be great and build a consistent contender for being ****ty.
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  #51  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:00 PM
RockJock07 RockJock07 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
See, I think now is the perfect time to EXPLORE trading Sale. You have all the power. But lets say the Rangers called, and offered you something stupid, Profar, Olt, Martin Perez and Joey Gallo or Cody Buckel, how do you say no to that with the state of this team?
Yeah, I drive Sale to the airport for that trade. Even if they offered Profar and Olt i'd do it. I think Sale is awesome but in the back of mind I wonder if his arm is a house of cards ready to fall at any minute.
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  #52  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:09 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Trading Sale isn't going to happen. Not because he's untouchable, but because it's highly unlikely a team is going to bet the house on him. The price for a young, all-star pitcher signed reasonably for 6 years would be astronomical. IMO the days of teams going "all in" on trades are over.

That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but the odds are long and recent history says otherwise.
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  #53  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:18 PM
24thStFan 24thStFan is offline
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I agree with the other posters who said, "no one is untouchable". Hahn needs to shop everyone around and take the best deals that fill the most critical needs (e.g., catcher, CF, 3B).

The question is whether Hahn and rest of the decision-makers in this organization are capable of evaluating the talent in any offered trade and making the correct long-term decision for the White Sox. I think we are about to find out the answer.
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  #54  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:58 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...edium=facebook

Not surprising.
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  #55  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:59 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
No way do I trade Sale. What for? So I can get a prospect who hopefully becomes half the pitcher Sale is when I have Sale wrapped up at a reasonable rate until 2019? If the Sox can't rebuild by 2019, I don't think trading Sale is going to help much.
This assumes that

1. Without trading Sale we can rebuild in time for his contract to still be valuable (since every rebuilding year his cost is an unnecessary expense)

2. Sale remains effective for that long

3. Sale defies the book on himself and doesn't suffer a career-ending/altering injury.

Those are all things the White Sox really need to look at. Just when will we be ready again? Is it worth paying tens of millions to Sale if we're not competing, especially given the lack of guarantee with his health?

He's got the most value on the team, and he's got the highest value he'll probably ever have. If you don't trade him now, it's quite likely you'll regret it.
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  #56  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:00 PM
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ChiSoxGal85 ChiSoxGal85 is offline
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Hey, the Tigers DFA'd Valverde...

No, Rick. Just no.

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  #57  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:02 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Trading Sale isn't going to happen. Not because he's untouchable, but because it's highly unlikely a team is going to bet the house on him. The price for a young, all-star pitcher signed reasonably for 6 years would be astronomical. IMO the days of teams going "all in" on trades are over.

That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but the odds are long and recent history says otherwise.
I bet a team like the Yankees would bite. And given his salary structure, maybe even a team like the Rays.
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  #58  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:10 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
3. Sale defies the book on himself and doesn't suffer a career-ending/altering injury.

Those are all things the White Sox really need to look at. Just when will we be ready again? Is it worth paying tens of millions to Sale if we're not competing, especially given the lack of guarantee with his health?
This is not the kind of speculation that good organizations do. Trading a guy because he "might" get hurt is a good way to continue floundering in the basement. Pitching is a violent act that takes it's toll on the human body no matter what your mechanics are. There's no proven method of throwing the ball that can prevent injury.

If someone blows Hahn away with a bevy of high quality prospects then so be it. Otherwise you'd have a hard time convincing me that keeping him is not our best option.

Last edited by rdivaldi; 06-21-2013 at 03:15 PM.
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  #59  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:15 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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I bet a team like the Yankees would bite. And given his salary structure, maybe even a team like the Rays.
The Yankees have a decent farm system, but the Rays, as always, have more tantalizing prospects. Any team would love to have Sale, but I just don't see it happening in the current state of affairs.
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  #60  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:29 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
This is not the kind of speculation that good organizations do. Trading a guy because he "might" get hurt is a good way to continue floundering in the basement. Pitching is a violent act that takes it's toll on the human body no matter what your mechanics are. There's no proven method of throwing the ball that can prevent injury.

If someone blows Hahn away with a bevy of high quality prospects then so be it. Otherwise you'd have a hard time convincing me that keeping him is not our best option.
Whatever your personal opinion on injury projections, most teams (not just good teams) weigh injury projections incredibly carefully. Sale isn't a "might" get injured case. Sale is a "probably" will get injured case. You can disagree with that all you want, and you have the right to, but that doesn't change the fact that the "book" on Sale is that the risk is more on the expect it to happen side of things.
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