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  #31  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:38 AM
Jurr Jurr is offline
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You don't have to be terrible for multiple seasons to rebuild.
The problem is with the teams that are MEDIOCRE.

Case in point, the NFL's Buffalo Bills.

In the 13 years since they made the playoffs, there have been a ton of 6-10 and 7-9 seasons. That is just good enough to keep you out of the top of the draft where true superstars live. The other problem with the Bills is that they don't spend quite enough money to be largely enticing to top coaches and free agents.

The Sox have one of these problems and not so much of the other.
They have been a middling team for a while, which has kept players on a roster much longer than they should have. They have plodded along on the same course for a while, and results have been BLAH.

The good news is that they will spend money, and that can turn around a team in a fast manner. They need to bottom out, dump as much of this payroll as humanly possible (please get hot, Adam Dunn!), and start from scratch.

If they can get decent value for those players (Crain, Konerko, Dunn, Peavy, etc), they should move them. Loyalty be damned.

Bottom out, get some elite prospects from the top of the next couple of drafts, then spend money to augment that talent.

It may take a few years, but the team can be built in a rapid manner.
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  #32  
Old 06-21-2013, 09:28 AM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
instead of running things from the top down which is how the Sox have done for years.
What organization or business isn't run from the people in charge downward? You think Apple asks their mail guy what features they should put in the next Iphone?
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  #33  
Old 06-21-2013, 09:36 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
2) To change the subject, there's a new book out called White Sox Heroes. Its about the players who played for the White Sox in the 1960's. The author is Carroll Conklin. I'm not familar with the author but just skimming through the book he talks about some forgotten White Sox stars from that era. I'm sure older White Sox fans will like the book. Reading about the White Sox players from the 1960's sure beats watching the present 2013 White Sox.
Thanks for letting us know.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Sox-Hero...1825227&sr=1-2
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  #34  
Old 06-21-2013, 09:49 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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I really don't think we need to do a pull-down rebuild, and frankly it's a hard sell for this franchise and fanbase especially with the current ownership.

With the young pitching we already have and continue to develop, what's necessary is a contract cleanout and selling high on young underperforming assets to with the result of bringing in the next group of younger offensive talent, augmented by some key FA signings.

Contracts expiring:

2013: Konerko, Floyd, Crain, Wise; Deal Konerko and Crain at deadline.
2014: Dunn, Rios buyout; Deal Rios this year, Dump Dunn next year, and eat cash if needed.
2015: Peavy, Keppinger, Beckham, DeAza; Peavy could be moved as early as this deadline if healthy, but I'd keep him longer to maximize value. Someone may take Keppinger off our hands before then.

Sell high:

I'd move Beckham and Viciedo while their contracts are low and trade value fairly high. IMO, last offseason was the best time to move both. Not sure if anyone would give us something decent for Flowers at this point, as he's obviously a AAAA player. I'd only consider moving Sale if we got an All-star bat in return.

This would bring back both prospects and payroll room. We'd be in for a tough 2014, but could be back as contenders as early as 2015, akin to what Boston did last year.
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  #35  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:16 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Don't "fix" what isn't broken: our pitching development system.

Do fix our heretofore inability to draft/sign amateur position players, and develop them into complete players who can execute all the fundamentals both in the field and at the plate, and field their positions well.

We won't get the next Frank Thomas/Magglio Ordonez cornerstone hitter via trade; we have to draft or sign those position players as amateurs.

But shrewd trades could turn our veteran position players and relievers into building blocks.
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  #36  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:18 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by ZombieRob View Post
They will be in the top 5 next year in drafting, if not top 3
Next year's pitching crop is going to be very strong. if we draft in the top 5, we should be able to land a future #1, #2 type starter.
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  #37  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:28 AM
captain54 captain54 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I think you're giving ownership way too much credit, the Hawks are back because they simply fell into a couple of good players and built a good team around them. .
that's incorrect... like in any sport, a team gets high picks but they still have to have good scouts in the amateur scouting dept. to access players and then decide exactly who to pick..

Last edited by captain54; 06-21-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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  #38  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:34 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I think you're giving ownership way too much credit, the Hawks are back because they simply fell into a couple of good players and built a good team around them.
This is not an accurate representation of what happened, nor is it fair to say that they "fell" into good players.

Besides Kane and Toews who were both drafted within the first 3 picks of the draft, none of the other great players were #1 draft picks. The Hawks front office is very savvy and deserves credit for the great teams they've put together.
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  #39  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:51 AM
Moses_Scurry Moses_Scurry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Next year's pitching crop is going to be very strong. if we draft in the top 5, we should be able to land a future #1, #2 type starter.
As awesome as the thought of having a 1-2 punch of Sale, Ace #2 is, I would much rather they get the next Frank Thomas or Ken Griffey Jr. Who are front runner position players for next year's draft?
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  #40  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:59 AM
tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses_Scurry View Post
As awesome as the thought of having a 1-2 punch of Sale, Ace #2 is, I would much rather they get the next Frank Thomas or Ken Griffey Jr. Who are front runner position players for next year's draft?
The only problem is Frank and Griffey are both future HOF'ers. Hopefully, we can find that stud bat, especially with the draft position we'll probably have.
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  #41  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:06 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses_Scurry View Post
As awesome as the thought of having a 1-2 punch of Sale, Ace #2 is, I would much rather they get the next Frank Thomas or Ken Griffey Jr. Who are front runner position players for next year's draft?
If there's a lead-pipe lock hitter like Harper, Griffey, A-Rod, Teixeira, Frank, Cabrera, Gwynn, Puckett, Boggs, Schmidt, Mauer, etc., then yes, take him, especially if he can field well at a premium position.

But you can win a World Series with two aces and a team that can catch the ball and plays good fundamentals.
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  #42  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:12 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses_Scurry View Post
As awesome as the thought of having a 1-2 punch of Sale, Ace #2 is, I would much rather they get the next Frank Thomas or Ken Griffey Jr. Who are front runner position players for next year's draft?
The 2 I see mentioned most often are Alex Jackson a high school catcher and Trey Turner who is a shortstop at NC State. There are actually quite a few shortstops ranked highly going into 2014. But overall, it's going to be a banner year for pitchers.
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  #43  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:23 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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If I am Rick Hahn, no one is untouchable. Now that is not to say I would not just trade Sale to trade him, but if I could get a return similar to what the Royals got for Shields, I would take it and not think twice. You need to rebuild with farm depth. Be it bullpen arms, pitchers, hitters. Stack up as much as you can, so you can spend the money wisely.

I would also like to see a purpose to our lineup. 3 or 4 guys with speed, a couple guys capable of hitting over .300, and 3 guys who can put out 30 homers, regardless of speed, for the middle. Right now, we lack a true 2 hitter (although, I thought Kepp would have been a PERFECT fit there), we don't have the power in the middle since PK is old and Tank has regressed terribly, and there is a huge lack of a consistent, pesky contact hitter.
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  #44  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:26 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain54 View Post
that's incorrect... like in any sport, a team gets high picks but they still have to have good scouts in the amateur scouting dept. to access players and then decide exactly who to pick..
And even good teams make a mistake sometimes and bad teams get lucky and pick the right guy.

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  #45  
Old 06-21-2013, 12:08 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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If you want a complete Royals/rays/Pirate start-over, you trade Sale and Reed. If you are doing this to compete in 2 years, you keep them. The 2 year plan depends on getting a lot out of Peavy, Rios and Crain.
I'd keep Alexei - who else do we have? And he wouldn't fetch squat anyway. I'd find a catcher who can catch the ball.....it's easier to find offense at other positions. Is Viciedo developing or is he "is what he is"? I'd probably keep De Aza - he can play better D than he has been. His O isn't terrible, and he'd yield little in return. Need a 3B, 1B and some outfielders.
And above all Ventura has got to stop pitching these young pitchers so many innings, using Reed (who the MLB network said this morning has lost 2 mph of of his fastball this year) 3/4 days, etc.
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