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  #16  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:27 PM
captain54 captain54 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
No one really cares now about what happened in the 80s. And as for bringing back players, in the case of the White Sox they have never left. There's too much loyalty and respect there.
.
I thought I said the newer generations of fans don't care about the late 80's

Ozzie was gone and came back.. and left.. where was the loyalty and respect in that relationship?
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  #17  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:28 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by captain54 View Post
I thought I said the newer generations of fans don't care about the late 80's

Ozzie was gone and came back.. and left.. where was the loyalty and respect in that relationship?
Ozzie left on his own.

Reinsdorf hasn't fired anyone in management for, what, 20 years or more?
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  #18  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:57 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Ozzie left on his own.

Reinsdorf hasn't fired anyone in management for, what, 20 years or more?
I think the last person that Jerry fired was Roland Hemond. Larry Himes left on his own.
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  #19  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:10 PM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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Rocky Wirtz brought the Blackhawks into the 1990s...in the late 2000s.

They were massively dysfunctional and he simply did what the other 29 teams were already doing. The Sox aren't that broken.
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  #20  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:50 PM
BigKlu59 BigKlu59 is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Great idea, what a bunch of dummies we are around here not to think of that.

Bada Bing Bada Boom....

TDog pretty much summed up the fundamental baseball culture needed to pull up out of this nosedive of the organization. You as well I as I know it always starts with "Strength Up The Middle", Contact hitting, Good pitching and top notch fielding. Out of the 4 the Sox are lacking in three parts of the equation..

BK59
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  #21  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:46 AM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
So what you're saying is we need to be ****ty for a long time, hope the owner dies, and become trendy. Got it.
They will be in the top 5 next year in drafting, if not top 3
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  #22  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:07 AM
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roylestillman roylestillman is offline
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One of the strengths of the Sox organization has always been its loyalty, but there is a fine between loyalty and complacency or business as usual. Whether its in hiring coaches, managers and general managers from within to drafting relatives of the organization, the whole thing has gotten unhealthy. Loyalty often means keep your mouth shut. A healthy dose of an outsider coming in and addressing problems from the clubhouse to scouting to parking lot operations is sorely needed. Hell, Rocky Wirtz came in, saw how dismal concessions were at the UC and fired his own brother.
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  #23  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:18 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
So what you're saying is we need to be ****ty for a long time, hope the owner dies, and become trendy. Got it.
First of all, I don't hope the owner dies. The team will be bad, at least in the short run since turning this around will take more than one season. And no, not become trendy, but give the fans a team they can more identify with instead of running things from the top down which is how the Sox have done for years. So I don't think you get it.

My main point about Rocky Wirtz is that he saw some changes needed to be made in the way the club was run. That needs to happen with the Sox.

Is my analogy with the Hawks absolutely perfect? No. But in the Sixties and Seventies, that was an elite team that was run into the ground. Success after that came only occasionally. Now the team is winning again and the fans are back. And a lot of this started at the top.
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  #24  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:49 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Now the team is winning again and the fans are back. And a lot of this started at the top.
I think you're giving ownership way too much credit, the Hawks are back because they simply fell into a couple of good players and built a good team around them. If the Hawks were still the laughingstock losers they were for basically my entire life, they'd probably still be drawing 3,000 fans at the UC.

Get better players = Win more games = Fans care more. I'm not the world's best mathematician, but that adds up to me.
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  #25  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:55 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I think you're giving ownership way too much credit, the Hawks are back because they simply fell into a couple of good players and built a good team around them. If the Hawks were still the laughingstock losers they were for basically my entire life, they'd probably still be drawing 3,000 fans at the UC.

Get better players = Win more games = Fans care more. I'm not the world's best mathematician, but that adds up to me.
That's adds up for me, too, but I have always thought the problems the Sox have had are more complicated than that. But I do think fans will also care more when ownership can instill confidence. The Sox ownership are not doing this. Period.
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  #26  
Old 06-21-2013, 06:43 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
That's adds up for me, too, but I have always thought the problems the Sox have had are more complicated than that. But I do think fans will also care more when ownership can instill confidence. The Sox ownership are not doing this. Period.
I totally agree.
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  #27  
Old 06-21-2013, 07:51 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I think you're giving ownership way too much credit, the Hawks are back because they simply fell into a couple of good players and built a good team around them. If the Hawks were still the laughingstock losers they were for basically my entire life, they'd probably still be drawing 3,000 fans at the UC.

Get better players = Win more games = Fans care more. I'm not the world's best mathematician, but that adds up to me.

You need to have good coaching at the major league level as well. Also, unless you are strictly going to get better players from free agency, you will need better scouting and minor league instructors.
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  #28  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:14 AM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Originally Posted by ZombieRob View Post
They will be in the top 5 next year in drafting, if not top 3
So then stage 1 is going to plan then.
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  #29  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:15 AM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I think you're giving ownership way too much credit, the Hawks are back because they simply fell into a couple of good players and built a good team around them. If the Hawks were still the laughingstock losers they were for basically my entire life, they'd probably still be drawing 3,000 fans at the UC.

Get better players = Win more games = Fans care more. I'm not the world's best mathematician, but that adds up to me.
Yup. Pretty much all they did was pile up high draft picks, do what every other team in the league does, and reap the benefits of being the only hockey team in the 3rd largest city in the country.
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  #30  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:26 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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1) In my lifetime the Blackhawks ownership was probably the worse Chicago ownership of the 5 major Chicago teams. I remember in the 1960's when the Blackhawks had Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita and sold out every home game with 16,666 customers. The Blackhawks owner (Arthur Wirtz) was so cheap and greedy he would only have the 2nd and 3rd periods of every home game on radio. He wouldn't put the 1st period on radio. He thought it would hurt the home attendance. He also commited one of the great blunders in Chicago sports history by not resigning Bobby Hull. It took many years for the Blackhawks to recover from not resigning Bobby Hull.
2) To change the subject, there's a new book out called White Sox Heroes. Its about the players who played for the White Sox in the 1960's. The author is Carroll Conklin. I'm not familar with the author but just skimming through the book he talks about some forgotten White Sox stars from that era. I'm sure older White Sox fans will like the book. Reading about the White Sox players from the 1960's sure beats watching the present 2013 White Sox.
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