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  #31  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:35 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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When the Sox win two World Series in three years I'll buy your argument.

Also nice of you to ignore the other point that whatever way you go or even if you decide to try both approaches like the Giants, you have to have the people who can actually make good decisions pulling the strings.

The Sox have tried "both" approaches the last six years. How has it worked out eh?

Thought so.

Lip
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  #32  
Old 06-17-2013, 02:33 PM
nsolo nsolo is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
LOL, what, the Giants, winners of 2 of the last 3 World Series have shown that teams can easily successfully build both internally and externally. In fact, just glossing at the standings, I would bet that every top team right now is some kind of mashup between good draft picks and good FA signings. To think it can be done all within one way is just perposterous.
No matter which direction is chosen, it is imperative that those pulling the trigger are talented enough to make those calls. I don't believe that those in charge, down to our scouts, have the insight to correctly identify talent. Nor do our coaches, on all levels, have the knowledge to correctly instruct and guide lower level talent.
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Last edited by nsolo; 06-17-2013 at 02:35 PM. Reason: sentence structure
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  #33  
Old 06-17-2013, 02:47 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Also nice of you to ignore the other point that whatever way you go or even if you decide to try both approaches like the Giants, you have to have the people who can actually make good decisions pulling the strings.

The Sox have tried "both" approaches the last six years. How has it worked out eh?

Thought so.

Lip
Oh please, the Giants GM, Brian Sabean had been under fire from fans for YEARS because of his shotty record of finding talent. That deal he gave to Barry Zito was, for most of it, a worse bust than Adam Dunn.

They just got lucky and had a few things go right and it worked. What people don't like to admit about baseball is that, at the front office level, it's more or less 99% luck.

But either way, thinking that you have to go one or the other route is just stupid. The Royals have been rebuilding through their farm system for almost 20 years. How has that worked, eh?

Thought so.
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  #34  
Old 06-17-2013, 03:03 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
LOL, what, the Giants, winners of 2 of the last 3 World Series have shown that teams can easily successfully build both internally and externally. In fact, just glossing at the standings, I would bet that every top team right now is some kind of mashup between good draft picks and good FA signings. To think it can be done all within one way is just perposterous.
Correct. It's becoming the norm to have a nice mixture of homegrown cost controlled talent augmented by smart free agent signings. It's not either or, it's the right combination of both. Much has to do with the timing, state of the minors, the free agent landscape, and what kind of core you have.

With Detroit's window wide open currently it would behoove the Sox to sit back, build up the minors a bit and wait patiently for there own opportunity. As much as everyone would like to competitive each and every year it's not always feasible.
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  #35  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:54 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by nsolo View Post
No matter which direction is chosen, it is imperative that those pulling the trigger are talented enough to make those calls. I don't believe that those in charge, down to our scouts, have the insight to correctly identify talent. Nor do our coaches, on all levels, have the knowledge to correctly instruct and guide lower level talent.
Nsolo:

Exactly. Or else you've got the same folks making the same mistakes that got you into the mess in the first place.

Whichever direction is chosen, I agree, it's hard to think the current folks will get it right.

New people are needed with no ties to the Sox or JR to look at things from a different perspective.

Lip
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  #36  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:58 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Oh please, the Giants GM, Brian Sabean had been under fire from fans for YEARS because of his shotty record of finding talent. That deal he gave to Barry Zito was, for most of it, a worse bust than Adam Dunn.

They just got lucky and had a few things go right and it worked. What people don't like to admit about baseball is that, at the front office level, it's more or less 99% luck.

But either way, thinking that you have to go one or the other route is just stupid. The Royals have been rebuilding through their farm system for almost 20 years. How has that worked, eh?

Thought so.
Sabean was the laughing stock of baseball for several years.
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  #37  
Old 06-18-2013, 10:37 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Oh please, the Giants GM, Brian Sabean had been under fire from fans for YEARS because of his shotty record of finding talent. That deal he gave to Barry Zito was, for most of it, a worse bust than Adam Dunn.

They just got lucky and had a few things go right and it worked. What people don't like to admit about baseball is that, at the front office level, it's more or less 99% luck.

But either way, thinking that you have to go one or the other route is just stupid. The Royals have been rebuilding through their farm system for almost 20 years. How has that worked, eh?

Thought so.
That is about 100% false. At the front office level it's about scouting and being able to develop talent, that's not luck.
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  #38  
Old 06-18-2013, 12:30 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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5187:

I think there is some 'luck' involved from time to time that's the random nature of things but I agree with your statement overall...luck, as Branch Rickey said, is the residue of design.

Or put another way, you makeyour own luck as many successful people seem to believe.

Getting talent and developing it are probably the biggest factors, be that at the minor league or major league level.

There's no one way to get talent but ultimately talent is what drives the engine.

Lip
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  #39  
Old 06-18-2013, 12:36 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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That is about 100% false. At the front office level it's about scouting and being able to develop talent, that's not luck.
Yes it is
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  #40  
Old 06-18-2013, 03:02 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Yes it is
No, it's not. It's a whole lot of steps and luck plays a factor in it but it goes way beyond luck. Kenny Williams might have been operating on the "it's just luck!" philosophy the past few years which is why we are in the mess we are in but other organizations aren't.
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  #41  
Old 06-18-2013, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
No, it's not. It's a whole lot of steps and luck plays a factor in it but it goes way beyond luck. Kenny Williams might have been operating on the "it's just luck!" philosophy the past few years which is why we are in the mess we are in but other organizations aren't.
Yes they are
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  #42  
Old 06-18-2013, 03:41 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Luck can affect an at bat, a month, a player (Mike Trout e.g.) and a year, but to say that successful gms are just lucky is daft.
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