*Official* 6-15 Time to abort this mission; HOU 4 SOX 3 Postgamer

[Jurr]

I remember a LONG time ago on this site where most of us said we would trade a decade of bad baseball for one WS win.

It's looking like it's time to pay up.
Thank God the deal has been retroactive to 2009.

[MarksBrokenFoot]

Originally Posted by Tragg

On a good team, Gillespie is a 8/9 hole hitter, if that. He's a placeholder. But one this team needs.
The issue is going to be whether they deal Quintana and/or Santiago. Those are the 2 guys teams are going to want.

I don't see why we'd trade either of those guys. They are young and cheap and pretty damn good. Crain and Rios are the trading chips now that Peavy went and took himself out of the equation.

[TomBradley72]

This should be a .500 team- the mental & physical errors and the regression of the young players is an indictment on Ventura.

I've always been a huge fan of Robin's- but his team is playing below its capability- and that's on him.

The overall talent level (majors & minors) is on KW- he should be gone- I don't see how it gets better while the guy who created the mess is still involved in decision making.

[Dan H]

Originally Posted by TomBradley72

This should be a .500 team- the mental & physical errors and the regression of the young players is an indictment on Ventura.

I've always been a huge fan of Robin's- but his team is playing below its capability- and that's on him.

The overall talent level (majors & minors) is on KW- he should be gone- I don't see how it gets better while the guy who created the mess is still involved in decision making.

I disagree with you with you on one point: this should not be a .500 team. The offenses is just too bad.

I agree in that I am not a big fan of Ventura as manager. But that is more on Williams. After the 2011 debacle, he goes out and hires an inexperienced man without even interviewing others. So we agree on another thing: KW needs to go or at least give him something else to do. But keep him from running this team.

[slavko]

Originally Posted by Dan H

I disagree with you with you on one point: this should not be a .500 team. The offenses is just too bad.

I agree in that I am not a big fan of Ventura as manager. But that is more on Williams. After the 2011 debacle, he goes out and hires an inexperienced man without even interviewing others. So we agree on another thing: KW needs to go or at least give him something else to do. But keep him from running this team.

For all we know, he's a figurehead right now. At least I hope so. The "spending more time with my family" story wouldn't have worked here. That the team is badly managed is self-evident in its play. Change is needed there too.

[Tragg]

Originally Posted by MarksBrokenFoot

I don't see why we'd trade either of those guys. They are young and cheap and pretty damn good. Crain and Rios are the trading chips now that Peavy went and took himself out of the equation.

I agree that they're good. I like both of them a lot. But we need talent in here. They are who will bring it.

[Noneck]

Originally Posted by Dan H

I disagree with you with you on one point: this should not be a .500 team. The offenses is just too bad.

I agree in that I am not a big fan of Ventura as manager. But that is more on Williams. After the 2011 debacle, he goes out and hires an inexperienced man without even interviewing others. So we agree on another thing: KW needs to go or at least give him something else to do. But keep him from running this team.

The problem is with the man that cant be fired.

[harwar]

Originally Posted by Boondock Saint

Yeah, watching this team is more like slow death than it is fun. Watching great or even good pitching is a lot better when there's some offense behind it.

Watching the White Sox right now is like observing a large wounded game animal, as it slows after the initial run, to a limping gait and staggers deliberately on to the unavoidable end..

[DonnieDarko]

Originally Posted by harwar

Watching the White Sox right now is like observing a large wounded game animal, as it slows after the initial run, to a limping gait and staggers deliberately on to the unavoidable end..

Nice prose.

[SI1020]

Originally Posted by Dan H

Then Jordon had the nerve to argue when the play wasn't that close. You're right. This team is tough to like. It is the most unlikable White Sox team to take the field in a long time. Even the 106-loss 1970 team was more likable than this.

Yes they were. How could you not like Gerry Janeski and Syd O'Brien? Seriously, this team is very hard to watch and even harder to like.

[Jollyroger2]

Originally Posted by SI1020

Yes they were. How could you not like Gerry Janeski and Syd O'Brien? Seriously, this team is very hard to watch and even harder to like.

I'm in the DC area but am moving to Houston in a year and a half. Was looking into the Astros earlier this year out of morbid curosity than anything else, and to think this Sox team has lost two in a row to that horrific team speaks volumes about the franchise right now.

I know Houston blew everything up and they're literally starting from scratch but man, they're bad. I'm frankly amazed they've won 20+ games at this point. Playing the Sox obviously helps them.

[amsteel]

Originally Posted by Dan H

I agree in that I am not a big fan of Ventura as manager. But that is more on Williams. After the 2011 debacle, he goes out and hires an inexperienced man without even interviewing others. So we agree on another thing: KW needs to go or at least give him something else to do. But keep him from running this team.

RV was hired as a marketing ploy to placate a jaded fanbase. I'm sure there are plenty of STHs that held onto their tickets in the 2011 offseason because of their nostalgic view of RV. He lucked into a nice 3 month run his first year that allowed people to overlook his inexperience as well a the lack of talent on the team.

Nice enough, although boring, guy. But currently MLB manager material? No.

Regarding KW, I realize hindsight biases people's view, but did anyone consider hiring RV a bad move at the time, or was people's view of the hire skewed by their feelings toward Ventura as a player?

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by amsteel

RV was hired as a marketing ploy to placate a jaded fanbase. I'm sure there are plenty of STHs that held onto their tickets in the 2011 offseason because of their nostalgic view of RV. He lucked into a nice 3 month run his first year that allowed people to overlook his inexperience as well a the lack of talent on the team.

Nice enough, although boring, guy. But currently MLB manager material? No.

Regarding KW, I realize hindsight biases people's view, but did anyone consider hiring RV a bad move at the time, or was people's view of the hire skewed by their feelings toward Ventura as a player?

There was quite a bit of skepticism about it but a lot of people were willing to overlook his inexperience in large part because of his White Sox career. The fact the Cardinals also hired a former player with no experience didn't hurt.

[Lip Man 1]

Quote of the Day:

"We just have to clean it up." - Robin Ventura.

Same ****, different spin...game after game after game. He'll be saying the same stuff probably on September 20th.



Lip

[Golden Sox]

Usually when a team starts losing some sort of moves are made. It sure doesn't look like there's going to be any player movement. I just can't help but wonder, is Hahn going to surprise us soon by firing Robin Ventura? They're going to have to do something to create some interest in this team. If trades are not coming, I would think we might see a new manager soon. Now that I have giving this more thought, the Royals just changed their hitting coach. Maybe the White Sox will come up with a new hitting coach. I don't think it would do any good if they replaced Ventura or any of his coaches. This team simply can't hit. There are too many outs in this lineup.