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  #16  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:10 PM
soxnut1018 soxnut1018 is offline
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Nick Castellanos and another prospect for Addison Reed. A young closer is a luxury. I know we probably won't trade in the division, but this move would make a ton of sense for us.
I like Addison, but in a heartbeat.
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:35 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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I like Addison, but in a heartbeat.
Agreed.
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:32 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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I'm pretty sure he'll get back on track when Detroit starts playing the Sox in July.

Always seems to happen that way for everybody else.

Lip
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  #19  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:27 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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I'm pretty sure he'll get back on track when Detroit starts playing the Sox in July.

Always seems to happen that way for everybody else.

Lip
Good grief...
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  #20  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:31 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Nick Castellanos and another prospect for Addison Reed. A young closer is a luxury. I know we probably won't trade in the division, but this move would make a ton of sense for us.
Teams seldom give up big prospects for young, inexperienced closers, even if they have been having successful runs. The Cubs did give up Jon Garland for Matt Karchner, but they had soured considerably on Garland after drafting him in the first round the previous year. The Dodgers gave up former first-round draft pick Paul Konerko to the Reds for Jeff Shaw, but Konerko for Jeff Shaw, in a trade of once and future White Sox, but Shaw was over 30, and Konerko had made the transition from prospect to struggling rookie. The Red Sox did essentially trade Josh Reddick for Andrew Bailey, but that was part of a five-player offseason deal, and Bailey had established himself over three seasons.

The fact is, Valverde hasn't been that bad this year overall, although it probably looks to fans as though he has lost it. And to the Tigers and their fans, Reed probably looks like just another closer who has given up two game-tying home runs in less than a week. One of the few points where I am in agreement with Billy Beane is his belief that closers aren't worth spending big money or talent on to acquire. Going for the high priced, highly credentialed closer was probably the biggest reasons the Marlins failed so miserably last year. If Valverde keeps going south, the Tigers will look for someone else to emerge. They don't have Jason Grilli anymore. And the pitcher they got for him never made it to the majors.
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  #21  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:45 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Teams seldom give up big prospects for young, inexperienced closers, even if they have been having successful runs. The Cubs did give up Jon Garland for Matt Karchner, but they had soured considerably on Garland after drafting him in the first round the previous year. The Dodgers gave up former first-round draft pick Paul Konerko to the Reds for Jeff Shaw, but Konerko for Jeff Shaw, in a trade of once and future White Sox, but Shaw was over 30, and Konerko had made the transition from prospect to struggling rookie. The Red Sox did essentially trade Josh Reddick for Andrew Bailey, but that was part of a five-player offseason deal, and Bailey had established himself over three seasons.

The fact is, Valverde hasn't been that bad this year overall, although it probably looks to fans as though he has lost it. And to the Tigers and their fans, Reed probably looks like just another closer who has given up two game-tying home runs in less than a week. One of the few points where I am in agreement with Billy Beane is his belief that closers aren't worth spending big money or talent on to acquire. Going for the high priced, highly credentialed closer was probably the biggest reasons the Marlins failed so miserably last year. If Valverde keeps going south, the Tigers will look for someone else to emerge. They don't have Jason Grilli anymore. And the pitcher they got for him never made it to the majors.
Oh I think for a young cost controlled closer we could probably do fairly well. And while closer is a role that people like to **** on, when teams are not meeting their Pythagorean projections, it's almost always because of that role. The Tigers have a good record, but at +81 they should be 4-5 games even better at this point. With as many blown saves as they've had, it's obvious what's holding them back. I think they'll do what it takes to correct it. Especially since they don't need their prospects to succeed.
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2013, 12:06 PM
#1swisher #1swisher is offline
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Bob Nightengale

Ok,#Tigers manager Jim Leyland asks,"Who the bleep do you think I should be closing with,'' as Valverde clings to job http://usat.ly/11LfNUT
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  #23  
Old 06-14-2013, 03:43 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Oh I think for a young cost controlled closer we could probably do fairly well. And while closer is a role that people like to **** on, when teams are not meeting their Pythagorean projections, it's almost always because of that role. The Tigers have a good record, but at +81 they should be 4-5 games even better at this point. With as many blown saves as they've had, it's obvious what's holding them back. I think they'll do what it takes to correct it. Especially since they don't need their prospects to succeed.
I think it is unrealistic to believe Addison Reed, who has been closing less than one full season and has had a week in which he has given up two game tying home runs (the sort of thing that makes teams and their fans look for a new closer) has trade-deadline value beyond the value the White Sox have in him. The Padres were shopping Heath Bell at the deadline of his free agent year and weren't offered anything approaching what they were asking. Bell was headed for free agency, but the way young closers tend to flame out, they don't have nearly the dependability of an All-Star veteran.

Reed has neither the consistency or the track record that a team like the Tigers would give up much for.
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  #24  
Old 06-14-2013, 08:34 PM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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The Tigers will probably be the team to give Brian Wilson a 'prove you can still pitch' contract after he finishes his rehab.
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2013, 09:13 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I think it is unrealistic to believe Addison Reed, who has been closing less than one full season and has had a week in which he has given up two game tying home runs (the sort of thing that makes teams and their fans look for a new closer) has trade-deadline value beyond the value the White Sox have in him. The Padres were shopping Heath Bell at the deadline of his free agent year and weren't offered anything approaching what they were asking. Bell was headed for free agency, but the way young closers tend to flame out, they don't have nearly the dependability of an All-Star veteran.

Reed has neither the consistency or the track record that a team like the Tigers would give up much for.
I don't think history backs you. Reed isn't a young closer on his last year, he's got essentially 5 years of control, two of which are not even arbitration eligible. There probably aren't' a lot of cases of closers with his experience level and contract situation getting traded. But it's not because players in his situation are worthless, it's because they're so valuable; teams don't normally trade cost controlled players in key positions, short of a fire sale. Reeds not only valuable, he's probably got more value than anyone other than Sale, and in some ways more considering his contract status.

Two blown save in a week, two blown saves all season. The dude is 19 for 21 to start this year after going 29 of 33 in his rookie year. He'd be closer on more than 75% of teams out there.
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  #26  
Old 06-18-2013, 03:01 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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I don't think history backs you. Reed isn't a young closer on his last year, he's got essentially 5 years of control, two of which are not even arbitration eligible. There probably aren't' a lot of cases of closers with his experience level and contract situation getting traded. But it's not because players in his situation are worthless, it's because they're so valuable; teams don't normally trade cost controlled players in key positions, short of a fire sale. Reeds not only valuable, he's probably got more value than anyone other than Sale, and in some ways more considering his contract status.

Two blown save in a week, two blown saves all season. The dude is 19 for 21 to start this year after going 29 of 33 in his rookie year. He'd be closer on more than 75% of teams out there.
You are right that teams acquire relief pitchers at the deadline. Teams acquire relief pitchers on waivers. Teams like good young arms. Teams like arms they can depend on situationally. But they don't pay much for them. Relief pitchers acquired late in the season were a big reason the Giants won the 2010 World Series, and they were smart, cheap moves.

Relief pitchers don't have the sort of mid-season trade value you are projecting. Closers in particular have a tendency to flame out, and every major league GM knows that because every major league GM has seen that.

If a team made a strong offer for Reed, I have no doubt the White Sox would trade him. Nate Jones has the skills that might make him a strong closer. But if you are the Tigers in need of a closer because Valverde falters sometimes, blowing two saves since May 31, you aren't going to make a big offer for Addison Reed, who since June 2 has given up two game-tying home runs while one strike away from preserving wins. The sorts of problems Tigers management is seeing Valverde have are not much different from what other teams are seeing in Reed.
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  #27  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:55 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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  #28  
Old 06-21-2013, 10:46 PM
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Damn. Ice cold.
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  #29  
Old 06-22-2013, 12:49 AM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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Well that was fun while it lasted.
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  #30  
Old 06-22-2013, 12:47 PM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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Have fun dancing all the way to the Newark Bears.
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