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  #1  
Old 06-10-2013, 09:26 PM
mcm3312 mcm3312 is offline
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Default Alter The Lineup

Get the Abs to the people swinging the bat well. I've been saying this for years. Also who are we kidding De Aza is not a leadoff hitter.

Beckham 2b
Ramirez SS
De Aza C
Rios RF
Konerko 1b
Dunn Dh
Tank LF
Gillaspie 3b
Flowers C

Thoughts?? Gotta turn this ship around somehow
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  #2  
Old 06-10-2013, 09:39 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Good luck getting runs batted in with your 5-9 hitters. Konerko, Rios and Dunn are station to station runners, and the guys hitting after them aren't likely to drive them in. That lineup puts a ton of pressure on 1-4.
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  #3  
Old 06-10-2013, 09:51 PM
mcm3312 mcm3312 is offline
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I dunno seems like an easy math equation. Lets get the most effective hitters on the team the most opportunities at the plate. I don't buy into this spread them throughout the lineup garbage.
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  #4  
Old 06-10-2013, 09:59 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcm3312 View Post
I dunno seems like an easy math equation. Lets get the most effective hitters on the team the most opportunities at the plate. I don't buy into this spread them throughout the lineup garbage.
The Sox only have one good hitter, Rios. Switching the lineup around him won't really accomplish much, IMHO.
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  #5  
Old 06-10-2013, 10:10 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is online now
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
The Sox only have one good hitter, Rios. Switching the lineup around him won't really accomplish much, IMHO.
Yeah, plus, haven't we learned our lesson with Gordon by now? When the guy's hitting, just leave him be. As soon as you start bumping him around the lineup he completely loses his feel for what he's doing.

If he's hitting, where he's hitting, just call it a blessing and figure out how to fix something else.
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  #6  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:15 PM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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I was just thinking "About that time of the month for the lineup thread".
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2013, 08:00 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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De Aza hitting 3??

I hate when people try and out think the lineup strategieis that have worked for years, you lead off your fastest guy who is a good hitter, your best bat control hitter hits 2, your best overall hitter 3, best power 4 etc. etc. etc.

The problem is not where to hit the 9 guys in the lineup. It is that we are hitting those 9 guys in the lineup. Outside Rios and Connor, they all suck. When that happens, you can shape the pile of **** any way you want, but it still is going to wreak like ****.
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:26 AM
mcm3312 mcm3312 is offline
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what do you know they moved up beckham to leadoff. I swear its scry how genius i am sometimes.
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2013, 03:05 AM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Originally Posted by mcm3312 View Post
what do you know they moved up beckham to leadoff. I swear its scry how genius i am sometimes.
And the team scored one unearned run against Erik Bedard, who had an ERA over 5.00 before tonight's game.

Absolutely genius.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2013, 12:36 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Loved the way Gonzo described this stiff (Bedard) in the post mortem story. Called him a "journeyman."

LOL.

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  #11  
Old 06-15-2013, 01:05 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I love that people are more concerned with De Aza hitting third than they are with him standing behind the plate with Flowers. I know Flowers is epically bad back there, but that's no reason to leave all that room in center field open!
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:41 PM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
De Aza hitting 3??

I hate when people try and out think the lineup strategieis that have worked for years, you lead off your fastest guy who is a good hitter, your best bat control hitter hits 2, your best overall hitter 3, best power 4 etc. etc. etc.

The problem is not where to hit the 9 guys in the lineup. It is that we are hitting those 9 guys in the lineup. Outside Rios and Connor, they all suck. When that happens, you can shape the pile of **** any way you want, but it still is going to wreak like ****.
Well, a lot of research and analysis has suggested that those "lineup strategieis that have worked for years" aren't actually optimal for scoring runs.
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2013, 05:17 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Why do the Sox have two guys catching?



*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2013, 02:47 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by SephClone89 View Post
Well, a lot of research and analysis has suggested that those "lineup strategieis that have worked for years" aren't actually optimal for scoring runs.
There is a theory holding that a lineup would be best if you have hitters hitting in descending order of their on-base percentage. I have no question that you are going to have your most efficient lineup if your top five hitters are your top five hitters in on-base percentage. Even in the White Sox lineup in April and May with De Aza leading off and Keppinger hitting second, the Sox would have scored more runs and won more games if those two were getting on base more frequently

The problem is that on-base percentage is not achieved in isolation of lineup position. Bat Dunn seventh or eighth, and he will have a higher on-base percentage, at least until late in close games when teams bring in a lefty relief specialist to get him out. Hitters who walk a lot and have low batting averages tend not to walk when a walk is more advantageous to your team. Dunn was intentionally walked three times in the 16-game because the Mariners strategically wanted to have their right-hander pitch to Konerko (I'm not sure if the Mariners had any lefties available when the first intentional walk was issued). Dunn would walk less (and last year he led the league in walks because there were fewer walks leaguewide in 2012) if he led off games.

Research notwithstanding, you try to set up your batting order so that it produces runs, obviously, but also so that it gives you the best matchups in close games because many games are decided ultimately in only a couple of matchups. These percentages and averages don't exist in isolation. When Jimmy Piersall was on first ahead of Ted Williams, he was directed not to steal because his presence on first increased the chances of Williams getting a hit, not because pitchers would be pitching around Williams, who would certainly walk if he didn't get any strikes, but because there would be a bigger hole to hit through with the first baseman holding the runner. Lineups can be an organic thing that determine the numbers more than the numbers determine the best lineup.
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:17 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
There is a theory holding that a lineup would be best if you have hitters hitting in descending order of their on-base percentage. I have no question that you are going to have your most efficient lineup if your top five hitters are your top five hitters in on-base percentage. Even in the White Sox lineup in April and May with De Aza leading off and Keppinger hitting second, the Sox would have scored more runs and won more games if those two were getting on base more frequently

The problem is that on-base percentage is not achieved in isolation of lineup position. Bat Dunn seventh or eighth, and he will have a higher on-base percentage, at least until late in close games when teams bring in a lefty relief specialist to get him out. Hitters who walk a lot and have low batting averages tend not to walk when a walk is more advantageous to your team. Dunn was intentionally walked three times in the 16-game because the Mariners strategically wanted to have their right-hander pitch to Konerko (I'm not sure if the Mariners had any lefties available when the first intentional walk was issued). Dunn would walk less (and last year he led the league in walks because there were fewer walks leaguewide in 2012) if he led off games.

Research notwithstanding, you try to set up your batting order so that it produces runs, obviously, but also so that it gives you the best matchups in close games because many games are decided ultimately in only a couple of matchups. These percentages and averages don't exist in isolation. When Jimmy Piersall was on first ahead of Ted Williams, he was directed not to steal because his presence on first increased the chances of Williams getting a hit, not because pitchers would be pitching around Williams, who would certainly walk if he didn't get any strikes, but because there would be a bigger hole to hit through with the first baseman holding the runner. Lineups can be an organic thing that determine the numbers more than the numbers determine the best lineup.
That is a great post. The bolded especially.
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