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  #136  
Old 06-06-2013, 03:46 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Anyone who doesn't think we should have traded Peavy already is in denial of the state of the White Sox. It was obvious even before the last losing streak this team was a lock for bottom of the division. That's when the trade needed to happen. You want to disagree with that, that's your perogative. But it isn't like A) it wasn't said then by many people and B) it isn't incredibly obvious now. Our run differential doesn't even point to a 70 win team. We're probably more likely to lose 100 than win 70. Waiting when it's blatantly obvious it's time to blow it up is another in a long list of why Rick Hahn is not/should never have been a major league general manager. Seriously, we can't get better until he's fired.
The sky is falling. We're all doomed.

What were the offers for Peavy? If you don't have any idea, you are the one in denial. He still can probably be traded at some point if need be.

Considering you had the Tigers threatening to have the best record of all time coming into this season and highly touted their then to be rookie closer, if Hahn is a lousy GM, I know someone who would be a lot worse.
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  #137  
Old 06-06-2013, 03:59 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
The sky is falling. We're all doomed.

What were the offers for Peavy? If you don't have any idea, you are the one in denial. He still can probably be traded at some point if need be.

Considering you had the Tigers threatening to have the best record of all time coming into this season and highly touted their then to be rookie closer, if Hahn is a lousy GM, I know someone who would be a lot worse.
Irrelevant post is irrelevant. Why are the first place Tigers being talked about in regards to the **** storm our GM created?

The sky is falling. If it wasn't for the Marlins and Astros, we'd be the worst run organization in baseball. And it's debatable that we're not.
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  #138  
Old 06-06-2013, 04:20 PM
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Anyone who doesn't think we should have traded Peavy already is in denial of the state of the White Sox. It was obvious even before the last losing streak this team was a lock for bottom of the division. That's when the trade needed to happen. You want to disagree with that, that's your perogative. But it isn't like A) it wasn't said then by many people and B) it isn't incredibly obvious now. Our run differential doesn't even point to a 70 win team. We're probably more likely to lose 100 than win 70. Waiting when it's blatantly obvious it's time to blow it up is another in a long list of why Rick Hahn is not/should never have been a major league general manager. Seriously, we can't get better until he's fired.
Oh, good ****ing Lord, the usual over-the-top, hyperdrama.

First, anyone who thinks the Sox should have traded Peavy already is completely out of their mind. Please explain how it would have helped the team to give away a valuable asset that's signed to a team-friendly deal in May, a period when no team is offering solid prospects for veterans. Yes, there is inherent risk when you hold on to a player in hopes as time and performance pass that his value will rise, and yes, if Peavy's hurt until the trade deadline, that will be a missed opportunity for the Sox, but they need impact players, not the usual organization filler. Holding Peavy until July and hoping a desperate team in need of a veteran arm was the right play. I really shouldn't have to explain this. It is possible to be realistic of the Sox's chances this year AND ALSO not think they need to completely panic and sell everything for nickels on the dollar.

I could entertain the idea the Sox should have traded Peavy if he had some ridiculously long and expensive contract that would impair the team's ability to rebuild, but he doesn't, he's here for 1 more season at a very reasonable rate for a guy whose been around the Top 15 of WAR for P for most of the season.

Second, Hahn was frequently praised as a well regarded up and coming GM. What a ridiculous assessment based on absolutely nothing.
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  #139  
Old 06-06-2013, 04:24 PM
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Irrelevant post is irrelevant. Why are the first place Tigers being talked about in regards to the **** storm our GM created?
Not at all, it's a reminder that you spent the better part of the off-season around here banging the drum that the Tigers were a shoe-in to clip 100 wins and run away with the division, yet here we sit, in June, and they're not even on a pace to win 90 right now (this despite the fact they have played one of the least difficult schedules in the AL to date). More of a reminder to people to be wary of your over the top, ridiculous assertations based on your general track record of being hilariously, hilariously wrong about everything.
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  #140  
Old 06-06-2013, 04:46 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Oh, good ****ing Lord, the usual over-the-top, hyperdrama.

First, anyone who thinks the Sox should have traded Peavy already is completely out of their mind. Please explain how it would have helped the team to give away a valuable asset that's signed to a team-friendly deal in May, a period when no team is offering solid prospects for veterans. Yes, there is inherent risk when you hold on to a player in hopes as time and performance pass that his value will rise, and yes, if Peavy's hurt until the trade deadline, that will be a missed opportunity for the Sox, but they need impact players, not the usual organization filler. Holding Peavy until July and hoping a desperate team in need of a veteran arm was the right play. I really shouldn't have to explain this. It is possible to be realistic of the Sox's chances this year AND ALSO not think they need to completely panic and sell everything for nickels on the dollar.

I could entertain the idea the Sox should have traded Peavy if he had some ridiculously long and expensive contract that would impair the team's ability to rebuild, but he doesn't, he's here for 1 more season at a very reasonable rate for a guy whose been around the Top 15 of WAR for P for most of the season.

Second, Hahn was frequently praised as a well regarded up and coming GM. What a ridiculous assessment based on absolutely nothing.
I don't have time to re-list the more than a dozen craptular off-season decisions I've chimed in about Hahn making. But not trading the Peavy with his injury history off of an obviously bad team turned the one decent offseason move he made into another loss. We could have gotten a decent prospect for him. Now he's hurt beyond the trade deadline, meaning we can only trade him during the off-season, when he's a one year player and not likely to fetch anything. The only reason you don't trade him and his injury history before this point is if you think we're competing. And if that's the case, then chalk it up to yet another instance Hahn has shown utter incompetence in the GM role.

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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Not at all, it's a reminder that you spent the better part of the off-season around here banging the drum that the Tigers were a shoe-in to clip 100 wins and run away with the division, yet here we sit, in June, and they're not even on a pace to win 90 right now (this despite the fact they have played one of the least difficult schedules in the AL to date). More of a reminder to people to be wary of your over the top, ridiculous assertations based on your general track record of being hilariously, hilariously wrong about everything.
They have like a +72 run differential. They're going to win 95+ games. They're very likely to win 100+ games. The only people doubting that are those that can only look at wins and losses as opposed to the things that actually project how a team is playing.
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  #141  
Old 06-06-2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I don't have time to re-list the more than a dozen craptular off-season decisions I've chimed in about Hahn making. But not trading the Peavy with his injury history off of an obviously bad team turned the one decent offseason move he made into another loss. We could have gotten a decent prospect for him. Now he's hurt beyond the trade deadline, meaning we can only trade him during the off-season, when he's a one year player and not likely to fetch anything. The only reason you don't trade him and his injury history before this point is if you think we're competing. And if that's the case, then chalk it up to yet another instance Hahn has shown utter incompetence in the GM role.
What world do you live in where teams routinely trade top prospects in May but not in the offseason?
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  #142  
Old 06-06-2013, 04:51 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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What world do you live in where teams routinely trade top prospects in May but not in the offseason?
This is a 100 loss team. It was obvious in May.

Peavy is a ticking time bomb. That was obvious before we signed him.

It's a loss. At best, it was a gamble that didn't pay off. But it didn't pay off. That's something he needs to be called out on. Especially since it's been lauded as the one thing all offseason that wasn't an absolutely stupid move.

You don't get anything for players in a walk year. Not anymore. He needed to be traded this year.
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  #143  
Old 06-06-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
This is a 100 loss team. It was obvious in May.

Peavy is a ticking time bomb. That was obvious before we signed him.

It's a loss. At best, it was a gamble that didn't pay off. But it didn't pay off. That's something he needs to be called out on. Especially since it's been lauded as the one thing all offseason that wasn't an absolutely stupid move.

You don't get anything for players in a walk year. Not anymore. He needed to be traded this year.
OK, first off, this "you don't get anything for players in walk years" is 100% bull****. Off the top of my head, I know the Braves had a nice offer on the table for Ryan Dempster last year before he used his NTC to block that deal and the Angels gave Milwaukee a nice package of playes for Zack Greinke last July, as well, centered around Jean Segura, a Top 100 prospect who is now the Brewers' starting SS and leads the NL in batting. Both Dempster and Greinke were in the last months of their contracts when they were traded.

Now, I'm sure you'll spout off something like, "well, Peavy's no Greinke or Dempster," and sure, maybe you're right (actually no, you're not, Peavy's WAR the past 3 seasons easily outclips both those guys... Easily), but the point remains that if you're argument revolves around this notion that teams don't give anything up for playes in walk years, you're already wrong.

But aside from that, what, precisely do you think the Sox would have gotten for Jake had they dumped him in May and given away their leverage (caused by the trade deadline). There's going to be a few teams looking for a veteran arm in July, and that bidding is what drives guys' prices up. When a team knows they're bidding against no one, it usually doesn't create demand for players. I shouldn't have to be explaining this. I can't remember any blockbuster trade happening recently this early in the season for a long time.

So, then the idea that the Sox "gambled" by keeping Peavy is clearly wrong, as the term gambling implies some kind of potential for a loss. How would the Sox's long term future been dramatically altered if they had dumped Peavy for a middling prospect two weeks ago or, at worst, just let him finish his next year and a half here? Maybe there'd be some kind of argument for this if Peavy's contract was so long and expensive that it limited the team's ability to rebuild, but it's not. Or maybe if the Sox had some hot shot SP in AA or AAA who was being blocked by Peavy, but there isn't. Essentially if the Sox were to trade him for nothing today or release him in October 2014, the path of the franchise would be identical. The only sane thing for the team to do would be to hold him to July and see if there's any kind of market for him, you can still legitimately land a good prospect for a veteran pitcher with a good deal that expires soon. This idea that there's no market for Peavy is completely ridiculous. There's a reason why a man of your obvious genius has been reduced to shouting your factually light ideas around on an internet message board.
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  #144  
Old 06-06-2013, 05:39 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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OK, first off, this "you don't get anything for players in walk years" is 100% bull****. Off the top of my head, I know the Braves had a nice offer on the table for Ryan Dempster last year before he used his NTC to block that deal and the Angels gave Milwaukee a nice package of playes for Zack Greinke last July, as well, centered around Jean Segura, a Top 100 prospect who is now the Brewers' starting SS and leads the NL in batting. Both Dempster and Greinke were in the last months of their contracts when they were traded.

Now, I'm sure you'll spout off something like, "well, Peavy's no Greinke or Dempster," and sure, maybe you're right (actually no, you're not, Peavy's WAR the past 3 seasons easily outclips both those guys... Easily), but the point remains that if you're argument revolves around this notion that teams don't give anything up for playes in walk years, you're already wrong.

But aside from that, what, precisely do you think the Sox would have gotten for Jake had they dumped him in May and given away their leverage (caused by the trade deadline). There's going to be a few teams looking for a veteran arm in July, and that bidding is what drives guys' prices up. When a team knows they're bidding against no one, it usually doesn't create demand for players. I shouldn't have to be explaining this. I can't remember any blockbuster trade happening recently this early in the season for a long time.

So, then the idea that the Sox "gambled" by keeping Peavy is clearly wrong, as the term gambling implies some kind of potential for a loss. How would the Sox's long term future been dramatically altered if they had dumped Peavy for a middling prospect two weeks ago or, at worst, just let him finish his next year and a half here? Maybe there'd be some kind of argument for this if Peavy's contract was so long and expensive that it limited the team's ability to rebuild, but it's not. Or maybe if the Sox had some hot shot SP in AA or AAA who was being blocked by Peavy, but there isn't. Essentially if the Sox were to trade him for nothing today or release him in October 2014, the path of the franchise would be identical. The only sane thing for the team to do would be to hold him to July and see if there's any kind of market for him, you can still legitimately land a good prospect for a veteran pitcher with a good deal that expires soon. This idea that there's no market for Peavy is completely ridiculous. There's a reason why a man of your obvious genius has been reduced to shouting your factually light ideas around on an internet message board.
Well, Peavy isn't Zach Greinke so of course I was going to say that. You're right, I worded it wrong. You can get something for players in walk years; but guys like Jake Peavy don't get you something in their walk years. Young aces do. Veterans with extensive injury histories do not. And now that he's hurt again, he's really not gonna get much.

A team like the Orioles would have traded for Peavy in the last few weeks. It was rumored they inquired and were told we weren't dealing.

The Dempster package was garbage, but so is Dempster. Even that Braves package that never was. Don't believe the Chicago media hype. Randall Delgado was regarded positively because he was close to ready, not because he was special. His ceiling was still a 4. It's like getting Hector Santiago in a trade. Not exactly a game changer. And certainly not what you want for someone like Peavy.

Last edited by blandman; 06-06-2013 at 05:45 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #145  
Old 06-06-2013, 10:23 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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This is a 100 loss team. It was obvious in May.

Peavy is a ticking time bomb. That was obvious before we signed him.

It's a loss. At best, it was a gamble that didn't pay off. But it didn't pay off. That's something he needs to be called out on. Especially since it's been lauded as the one thing all offseason that wasn't an absolutely stupid move.

You don't get anything for players in a walk year. Not anymore. He needed to be traded this year.
An obvious 100 loss team? How about a big wager? And again you are blasting them for not trading Peavy. What were the offers?
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  #146  
Old 06-07-2013, 09:37 AM
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Well, Peavy isn't Zach Greinke so of course I was going to say that. You're right, I worded it wrong. You can get something for players in walk years; but guys like Jake Peavy don't get you something in their walk years. Young aces do. Veterans with extensive injury histories do not. And now that he's hurt again, he's really not gonna get much.

A team like the Orioles would have traded for Peavy in the last few weeks. It was rumored they inquired and were told we weren't dealing.

The Dempster package was garbage, but so is Dempster. Even that Braves package that never was. Don't believe the Chicago media hype. Randall Delgado was regarded positively because he was close to ready, not because he was special. His ceiling was still a 4. It's like getting Hector Santiago in a trade. Not exactly a game changer. And certainly not what you want for someone like Peavy.
For Christ's sake, just give it a rest, you're wrong.
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  #147  
Old 06-10-2013, 03:29 PM
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Gavin Floyd
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  #148  
Old 06-10-2013, 03:49 PM
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Good luck Gavin somewhere else.

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  #149  
Old 06-20-2013, 01:12 PM
#1swisher #1swisher is offline
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Dan Hayes
Jake Peavy rode a bike and did shoulder work yesterday and he's excited about the chance to work out. #WhiteSox http://bit.ly/12dJFVN

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Peavy progressing but uncertain of return http://es.pn/12OgHlw
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  #150  
Old 06-25-2013, 08:08 PM
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Doug Padilla
Peavy targets bullpens by next week http://es.pn/134yO71
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