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  #61  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:15 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Red:

If you think he's going to finish with 48 home runs and over 100 RBI's you and I need to get together a make a friendly wager.

He can hit 55 home runs for all I care, he's killing this team because of the fact he is hitting.150 yet remains in the clean up role.

Voodoo:

That's six organizations then who place a higher priority on winning as opposed to how much a guy makes isn't it?

Again not ripping owenrship, I completely understand why they won't release him. I don't agree with the decision but it's not my money either.

Lip
Releasing him makes no sense. I stand behind that statement. Moving him down in the order, okay, but what is gained by releasing him? Is there a better bat to put at DH? Is there a potential stud chomping at the bit in the minors who they can put at first and let Paulie DH?

Until those questions have answers in the affirmative, there's simply NO POINT in releasing Dunn. It's half an idea based purely on frustration, not on any chance to open a slot for someone who deserves it.
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  #62  
Old 06-02-2013, 06:56 AM
34rancher 34rancher is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Releasing him makes no sense. I stand behind that statement. Moving him down in the order, okay, but what is gained by releasing him? Is there a better bat to put at DH? Is there a potential stud chomping at the bit in the minors who they can put at first and let Paulie DH?

Until those questions have answers in the affirmative, there's simply NO POINT in releasing Dunn. It's half an idea based purely on frustration, not on any chance to open a slot for someone who deserves it.
I understand what you are saying. But do we lose anything by releasing him? Can any young hitter be worse?
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  #63  
Old 06-02-2013, 08:53 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Releasing him makes no sense. I stand behind that statement. Moving him down in the order, okay, but what is gained by releasing him? Is there a better bat to put at DH? Is there a potential stud chomping at the bit in the minors who they can put at first and let Paulie DH?

Until those questions have answers in the affirmative, there's simply NO POINT in releasing Dunn. It's half an idea based purely on frustration, not on any chance to open a slot for someone who deserves it.
It's not based purely on frustration.

It's based on an aging DH who has now been hitting .180 for 2+ seasons (14 months of regular season baseball).

There are pitchers in the NL who are better hitters than our DH.

He's now hitting .157 for 2013- 2 points BELOW the 2011 season when they had to sit him down for the last month of the season to avoid having the worst hitting season of any player in the history of MLB.

2012 was a mirage- after Memorial Day, he hit .191, he hit .212 w/RISP.

In my opinion, he's not "slumping", he's not going to "come out of it" (either to help the Sox or generate value for a trade), and just about any alternative is better than the current situation.

I also think this will be 'addition by subtraction" for the clubhouse/team chemistry- not because Dunn is bad guy- he seems to be a great guy- but when someone is failing at the epic level of Dunn's failure- it permeates the rest of a team/organization.

He doesn't bring any value off the bench, he's not going to get better, he's not going to help the Sox for 2013 or 2014- so release him and him move on.

Vs. RHs- Jordan Danks in LF (or in CF, move De Aza to LF) & DH Viciedo, Vs. LH- Keppinger DHs (after Beckham returns), Viciedo back to LF.

Not great alternatives- but an improvement- and at least your defense gets a little better, you're a little more athletic on the bases, and you're giving a young player (Danks) a shot to see if he should be part of your plans for 2014 (replace De Aza).
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  #64  
Old 06-02-2013, 11:35 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
It's not based purely on frustration.

It's based on an aging DH who has now been hitting .180 for 2+ seasons (14 months of regular season baseball).

There are pitchers in the NL who are better hitters than our DH.

He's now hitting .157 for 2013- 2 points BELOW the 2011 season when they had to sit him down for the last month of the season to avoid having the worst hitting season of any player in the history of MLB.

2012 was a mirage- after Memorial Day, he hit .191, he hit .212 w/RISP.

In my opinion, he's not "slumping", he's not going to "come out of it" (either to help the Sox or generate value for a trade), and just about any alternative is better than the current situation.

I also think this will be 'addition by subtraction" for the clubhouse/team chemistry- not because Dunn is bad guy- he seems to be a great guy- but when someone is failing at the epic level of Dunn's failure- it permeates the rest of a team/organization.

He doesn't bring any value off the bench, he's not going to get better, he's not going to help the Sox for 2013 or 2014- so release him and him move on.

Vs. RHs- Jordan Danks in LF (or in CF, move De Aza to LF) & DH Viciedo, Vs. LH- Keppinger DHs (after Beckham returns), Viciedo back to LF.

Not great alternatives- but an improvement- and at least your defense gets a little better, you're a little more athletic on the bases, and you're giving a young player (Danks) a shot to see if he should be part of your plans for 2014 (replace De Aza).
Rather than release him and get nothing, why not trade him for a prospect and pay his salary. Some team will take a chance that a change of scenery may help him since he would be free.May be better than pay him to sit home----try and get a prospect for him.
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  #65  
Old 06-02-2013, 11:38 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Rather than release him and get nothing, why not trade him for a prospect and pay his salary. Some team will take a chance that a change of scenery may help him since he would be free.May be better than pay him to sit home----try and get a prospect for him.
I don't see us getting much of a prospect for an aging .180 hitter- but if its possible- I agree with you.
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  #66  
Old 06-02-2013, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I don't see us getting much of a prospect for an aging .180 hitter- but if its possible- I agree with you.
If they eat the salary that might get them something. Might be an AL team thinks a DH who can hit 25 HR between now and October could help him or that a change of scenery would help. Might even be a NL team in need of a new 1B figures playing the field would allow Dunn to get his head right.

Trading is something I could understand even if they don't get much. Releasing is simply a bad idea.

Edit: And even if the young player could out hit Dunn, is it the right move for that player? Only thing I could think makes sense is to DH Tank and put Wise or Danks in LF. Still not sure it's the best idea, but at least the defense would improve.
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  #67  
Old 06-03-2013, 07:54 AM
Carolina Kenny Carolina Kenny is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
It's not based purely on frustration.

It's based on an aging DH who has now been hitting .180 for 2+ seasons (14 months of regular season baseball).

There are pitchers in the NL who are better hitters than our DH.

He's now hitting .157 for 2013- 2 points BELOW the 2011 season when they had to sit him down for the last month of the season to avoid having the worst hitting season of any player in the history of MLB.

2012 was a mirage- after Memorial Day, he hit .191, he hit .212 w/RISP.

In my opinion, he's not "slumping", he's not going to "come out of it" (either to help the Sox or generate value for a trade), and just about any alternative is better than the current situation.

I also think this will be 'addition by subtraction" for the clubhouse/team chemistry- not because Dunn is bad guy- he seems to be a great guy- but when someone is failing at the epic level of Dunn's failure- it permeates the rest of a team/organization.

He doesn't bring any value off the bench, he's not going to get better, he's not going to help the Sox for 2013 or 2014- so release him and him move on.

Vs. RHs- Jordan Danks in LF (or in CF, move De Aza to LF) & DH Viciedo, Vs. LH- Keppinger DHs (after Beckham returns), Viciedo back to LF.

Not great alternatives- but an improvement- and at least your defense gets a little better, you're a little more athletic on the bases, and you're giving a young player (Danks) a shot to see if he should be part of your plans for 2014 (replace De Aza).
Not a bad idea, except that JorDanks can't hit.
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  #68  
Old 06-03-2013, 08:12 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Carolina Kenny View Post
Not a bad idea, except that JorDanks can't hit.
Details, details.

Well- he's established himself as a .300 hitter at AAA- might as well use this year to give him one final shot.
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  #69  
Old 06-03-2013, 11:16 AM
wassagstdu wassagstdu is offline
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I cannot support a team that accepts the record awful performance and self-centered approach of Adam Dunn. "Only one stat matters:W", remember? As long as he is trotted out every day the message to fans and teammates is that management thinks that bull**** is acceptable. Until he is gone I am gone.
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  #70  
Old 06-03-2013, 11:25 AM
Jerko Jerko is offline
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Originally Posted by wassagstdu View Post
I cannot support a team that accepts the record awful performance and self-centered approach of Adam Dunn. "Only one stat matters:W", remember? As long as he is trotted out every day the message to fans and teammates is that management thinks that bull**** is acceptable. Until he is gone I am gone.
I'm starting to agree with this. I know the rest of the hitters outside of Gillaspie and Rios suck too, but seeing this big goof trotted out there in the 4 or 5 hole EVERY day is starting to gall me.
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  #71  
Old 06-03-2013, 11:26 AM
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Rocky Soprano Rocky Soprano is offline
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Originally Posted by wassagstdu View Post
I cannot support a team that accepts the record awful performance and self-centered approach of Adam Dunn. "Only one stat matters:W", remember? As long as he is trotted out every day the message to fans and teammates is that management thinks that bull**** is acceptable. Until he is gone I am gone.


Let me get this straight. If the Sox release him and plug in ANYONE else, even if the production is worse, that would be acceptable and a good thing?

We are stuck with Dunn, the Sox are not going to release him and continue to pay him. The Sox have no better options in the minor leagues and no other team would EVER take him in a trade.
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  #72  
Old 06-03-2013, 11:30 AM
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Rocky Soprano Rocky Soprano is offline
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Originally Posted by Jerko View Post
I'm starting to agree with this. I know the rest of the hitters outside of Gillaspie and Rios suck too, but seeing this big goof trotted out there in the 4 or 5 hole EVERY day is starting to gall me.
Get Dunn out of the 4 or 5 hole, that's at least a logical argument. I just don't see the logic in begging for Dunn to be released when there is absolutely no one that Sox have to plug in his place. At least make Dunn "work" for his paycheck.
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  #73  
Old 06-03-2013, 11:39 AM
Jerko Jerko is offline
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Originally Posted by Rocky Soprano View Post
Get Dunn out of the 4 or 5 hole, that's at least a logical argument. I just don't see the logic in begging for Dunn to be released when there is absolutely no one that Sox have to plug in his place. At least make Dunn "work" for his paycheck.
Most fans just want to see him gone obvously. Even if his replacement is as bad or worse, at least it's not him. Sometimes fan-bases get like that with certain players. Thome could come back tomorrow and put up the same exact numbers but nobody would say boo. I know every time I'm at the game, I feel like somebody is stealing my money when Dunn comes up to the plate.
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  #74  
Old 06-03-2013, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerko View Post
Most fans just want to see him gone obvously. Even if his replacement is as bad or worse, at least it's not him. Sometimes fan-bases get like that with certain players. Thome could come back tomorrow and put up the same exact numbers but nobody would say boo. I know every time I'm at the game, I feel like somebody is stealing my money when Dunn comes up to the plate.
I completely understand that fans are sick of seeing him in the lineup. Ultimately, the fans want the Sox to succeed. I would also be asking for Dunn to be released if there was an option out there that would help our team win. Unfortunately there just isn't. It's sad but the truth.
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  #75  
Old 06-03-2013, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerko View Post
Most fans just want to see him gone obvously. Even if his replacement is as bad or worse, at least it's not him. Sometimes fan-bases get like that with certain players. Thome could come back tomorrow and put up the same exact numbers but nobody would say boo. I know every time I'm at the game, I feel like somebody is stealing my money when Dunn comes up to the plate.
I'm testing that theory right now:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...d.php?t=138225
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