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  #31  
Old 05-23-2013, 04:58 PM
PorkChopExpress PorkChopExpress is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post


You're going to keep digging this hole? Your position is 100% clear to me. It's just that your position is profoundly arrogant and ridiculous. And so, in the great debate between random internet commenter or coaching staff of the team with the 4th best overall ERA and best SP ERA in the AL and best training staff in the MLB (by a wide margin) for the last decade... Who should I choose to trust?



HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....
Wow. Pot, meet Kettle. You're both black.
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  #32  
Old 05-23-2013, 06:16 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is online now
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Cooper knows infinitely more than me about coaching pitchers.

The one thing on which I have claimed to be an expert is knowing what my position is. And I know for a fact that Doub has misrepresented my position.
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  #33  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
No doubt. I also had 1% of the information Ozzie and Williams had too. Boy those Swisher trades were great. Edwin Jackson is elite. And Ozzie was right! Wise is a leadoff hitter.
Those guys also won a World Series so, you know...
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  #34  
Old 05-24-2013, 11:51 AM
PorkChopExpress PorkChopExpress is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Those guys also won a World Series so, you know...
So...what? They must be infallible? They must always make the right moves? Don't leave us hanging. I'm dying to know.

And by your logic, these inside guys (Cooper, Ventura, Hahn, Guillen, Williams, etc.) have all the information and experience, and thus can't be wrong. Because all Frater was suggesting was an alternative to their approach, and you've deemed that ridiculous. Apparently there is no second-guessing these guys. And obviously they've earned that since, with all the information and their experience they've won the World Series how many times since '05? Well at least they've made it to the World Se...no wait...the ALC...no, the playoffs. Yeah, they've made it to the playoffs...once.

C'mon, Doub. Are you just arguing to argue, or do you really believe your opinion is better than someone else's even though they're both just opinions?
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  #35  
Old 05-24-2013, 11:54 AM
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  #36  
Old 05-24-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by PorkChopExpress View Post
or do you really believe your opinion is better than someone else's even though they're both just opinions?
Obviously. My opinion, of course, is shared by arguably the best pitching coach in Major League baseball and the best training staff in Major League baseball. Yours is shared by randos on the internet.

I'm going to just mark that down 2-0 me.

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  #37  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:08 PM
MarksBrokenFoot MarksBrokenFoot is offline
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If it was up to Cooper, Sale would be closing for the rest of his career. I'm quite comfortable saying people on the internet, from time to time, may have a better idea than Cooper about who starts and who relieves.
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  #38  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:29 PM
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If it was up to Cooper, Sale would be closing for the rest of his career. I'm quite comfortable saying people on the internet, from time to time, may have a better idea than Cooper about who starts and who relieves.
No offense, and I certainly hope you're right, but I hope you're aware this is like spiking the ball and doing a touchdown dance on your own 20 yard line.
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  #39  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:46 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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There are times when I questioned experts and times I didn't and wish the hell I had. Putting forth the idea that maybe Danks should do some long relief first is not an over the top notion. Now I happen to not agree with it, but I don't think it makes one arrogant or disrespectful of the pitching coach. I've thought about cutting out, I know the site would get along quite well without me. It did for several years. It is just depressing to see that a mod finds it necessary to attempt to bitch slap a poster over a very innocuous remark. I love a debate more than most, and for the most part don't take offense if someone rips one of my posts. I'm in the mood to make another of my men are irrelevant remarks, but man did I catch hell for that the last time.

As for Danks, I'm concerned that he's ready. I was already concerned before he got hurt. He peaked in 08 and never fullfilled that initial promise. He reminded me of a left handed version of 1972-75 Sox pitcher Stan Bahnsen, who Bill Gleason dubbed "Stanley Struggle." That's what Danks appeared to me to be doing in far too many of his starts. Just my opinion again. I hope he is effective when he comes back. You can never have too much good pitching. Especially in today's game where so many pitchers seem fragile.
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  #40  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:53 PM
MarksBrokenFoot MarksBrokenFoot is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
No offense, and I certainly hope you're right, but I hope you're aware this is like spiking the ball and doing a touchdown dance on your own 20 yard line.
No, I deflated your argument because it contains a logical fallacy. Appeal to authority, or "I'm right because this expert agrees with me." If you have an idea and evidence, present it. If you're going to hide behind Cooper's skirt, get out of the way and let him post.
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  #41  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MarksBrokenFoot View Post
No, I deflated your argument because it contains a logical fallacy. Appeal to authority, or "I'm right because this expert agrees with me." If you have an idea and evidence, present it. If you're going to hide behind Cooper's skirt, get out of the way and let him post.
Well, the point I was making is that it's awfully early in Sale's career to be making definitive statements about the course it ran; if Sale's elbow explodes in 2 years, were the Sox really better off pushing him to start over leaving him in the bullpen where he was also elite? I don't have the answer to that question.

My "idea and evidence" are that Cooper and the Sox have been the pace setters in the Majors for years now at scouting, developing, and protecting pitcher's health. If a burden of producing evidence falls on anyone, it's the folks in this thread who seem to think themselves as superior to the Sox in this department. So tell me why John should start in the bullpen; do pitchers recovering from shoulder surgery really perform better if they're eased into the rotation? Has something concerned you in his rehab that makes you think he's not ready to start in the Majors? Or are you just being contrarian because it's the easy position to take, the one that lets you walk both sides of the line; if Danks pitches well and proves the Sox correct, hey, that's good! And if he pitches poorly, you can just point to this throwaway thread, puff your chest, and tell everyone how right you were despite making these objections with absolutely no evidence to support your position.

I really don't ****ing care, either way, keep on posting. The amount of time I waste wading through this bull**** is worth it for the hilarity it provides me.

Last edited by doublem23; 05-24-2013 at 01:12 PM.
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  #42  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:23 PM
Huisj Huisj is offline
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I think maybe doublem's account got hacked by an angry cousin of Chris Rongey (or maybe Don Cooper). We bow before you, oh grand organizational-apologist-and-defender-with-an-in-your-face-attitude. Don't even think about questioning anything even the smallest amount or dare to gently toss in an outside-the-box idea for discussion in his midst, because he'll spend the next 3 pages repeating the same thing over and over in an attempt to tear you to shreds and made you feel dumb. Good grief.

Unless it has to do with Adam Dunn and cutting down on strikeouts, because then he'll agree with you.

Basically, this whole thing comes down to someone wondering if Danks will still be as good as he used to be when he comes back from a shoulder injury. Is that such a terrible thing to wonder on an internet message board?

Quote:
If the Sox want Danks to start right away, I'm going to guess that Cooper has a pretty big say in that decision, so by arguing you think it'd be better for him to start in the bullpen (I'm guessing you've closely monitored his rehab in person) you are clearly demonstrating that you think, in this instance, you would be a better pitching coach than Coop.

I will call bull.
For someone so certain about everything, you sure seem to be guessing a lot.
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  #43  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:24 PM
kufram kufram is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
There are times when I questioned experts and times I didn't and wish the hell I had. Putting forth the idea that maybe Danks should do some long relief first is not an over the top notion. Now I happen to not agree with it, but I don't think it makes one arrogant or disrespectful of the pitching coach. I've thought about cutting out, I know the site would get along quite well without me. It did for several years. It is just depressing to see that a mod finds it necessary to attempt to bitch slap a poster over a very innocuous remark. I love a debate more than most, and for the most part don't take offense if someone rips one of my posts. I'm in the mood to make another of my men are irrelevant remarks, but man did I catch hell for that the last time.

As for Danks, I'm concerned that he's ready. I was already concerned before he got hurt. He peaked in 08 and never fullfilled that initial promise. He reminded me of a left handed version of 1972-75 Sox pitcher Stan Bahnsen, who Bill Gleason dubbed "Stanley Struggle." That's what Danks appeared to me to be doing in far too many of his starts. Just my opinion again. I hope he is effective when he comes back. You can never have too much good pitching. Especially in today's game where so many pitchers seem fragile.
I thought about wading in here and then thought again. Then I saw your post and you said it better than I was thinking it. There are a couple of people here that seem to be in charge of sarcasm, judgement, knowledge, and self congratulation. Ruins a great site.
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  #44  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:27 PM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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I just hope that the bullpen is well rested, as I assume Danks will be on a strict pitch count and of course, come out even earlier if he is ineffective.

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  #45  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:36 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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I thought personal attacks were banned from this site. Seems like Doub is crossing the line.
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