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  #16  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:15 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
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Nice to see Paul get the home run but the fact is right now, he and Dunn are killing the club in the middle of the order. Left seven on base tonight. Dunn, the cleanup hitter is batting .163, Konerko at #5 is hitting .224

Lip
Lip: I am disappointed, you being a stat guy. Paulie is hitting over .300 with runners in scoring position. Dunn is hitting .224 but the big problem is Rios who is hitting .179 w runners in scoring position
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  #17  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:18 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Flowers lost me last night. His mental effort is unacceptable. The passed ball was bad enough. At this point, you think he'd be ready to shift his body and block any ball that's even remotely wild. His meek, backhanded stab at the ball smacked of someone who wasn't aware of the situation.

What really disturbed me was his at-bat following that passed ball. He stepped into the box and started a rather lengthy conversation with either the catcher or umpire. Then he snapped out of it just in time for the pitch, as if his at-bat was an afterthought. He proceeded to strike out on four pitches, taking a called third strike.
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  #18  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:31 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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They wouldn't have had to give out a bad contract to keep Pierzynski though. He only got one year from Texas. The Sox could have matched that deal. I wasn't necessarily opposed to moving on from A.J. What I don't like is they let him go without replacing him. Anyone with an IQ over 15 knew Flowers would not be an adequate replacement. Holes in his swing like swiss cheese, and all that "improved defense" talk was just that -- nothing more than talk.

Getting back to tonight's game, the Sox bullpen is looking thinner and thinner by the day. Once you get past Reed and Crain, there are problems. This was a winnable game until Omogrosso, Jones and Veal came on to commit arson. Santiago pitched a decent ballgame. Just didn't get much help.
I've come to expect this from the White Sox. Remember when Josh Fields was going to be an All-Star (according to KW) and was going to shock us with his improved defense (according to Joey Cora)? KW was just selling us snake oil with players like Fields, Morel, and Anderson. It looks like that hasn't changed.

....maybe Hahn just didn't have a choice. Perhaps he was told the $7M it would have taken to keep AJ was beyond the payroll limit and it's not like the organization had a lot of valuable prospects available to trade for a serviceable catcher.
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  #19  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:36 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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I agreed with you then and now but IIRC correctly that was not a popular thing to post in the off season. He'll do all right, or give him a chance seemed to be the consensus. That and good riddance to AJ.
IMO, the opinion of some fans on internet chat sites has nothing to do with whether Sox management was right in thinking that Flowers would be an acceptable major league starting catcher.
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  #20  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:48 AM
24thStFan 24thStFan is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
What really disturbed me was his at-bat following that passed ball. He stepped into the box and started a rather lengthy conversation with either the catcher or umpire. Then he snapped out of it just in time for the pitch, as if his at-bat was an afterthought. He proceeded to strike out on four pitches, taking a called third strike.
That's unacceptable. I hope Robin has a stern talk with Tyler
We need Tyler to do better, there's no alternative.
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  #21  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:51 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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It just amazing how bad Veal and Nate Jones have been this year. Both of them had successful seasons in 2012. They both look as if they can't pitch in the big leagues anymore. The longer I have watched baseball, the more I am convinced that most relief pitchers don't have long successful careers. On that subject, one of the pitchers for the bad guys on the Northside just got removed from their roster and is going to be reassigned. Michael Bowden will probably be pitching in Iowa soon if he accepts the assignment. He goes to the same health club I go to and I have friends who know him. He grew up a Cubs fan and was thrilled to be traded from Boston to the Cubs last year. From what I know he's not to thrilled being demoted to the Minor Leagues. I take it he figures he's not in the long range plans of the bad guys on the Northside. His numbers this year are not all that bad, they're certainly better than Veal or Nate Jones this year. I'm sure the White Sox wouldn't have to give up much for him and if that is the case, it wouldn't be that much of a risk to acquire him.
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:13 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is online now
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
I've come to expect this from the White Sox. Remember when Josh Fields was going to be an All-Star (according to KW) and was going to shock us with his improved defense (according to Joey Cora)? KW was just selling us snake oil with players like Fields, Morel, and Anderson. It looks like that hasn't changed.
This is true of all teams, though, not just the Sox. What do you honestly expect the GM to say publicly? This guy sucks but we can't afford anything better right now? Every team has to take on some risks here and there with their roster for a variety of reasons. Even the $200 million payroll Yankees had to take flyers on retreads like Travis Hafner and Vernon Wells early this year to get enough bodies on the field. The Dodgers, who have a seemingly unlimited payroll, have had to give starts to guys like Chris Capuano, Matt Magill, Ted Lilly, and Stephen Fife.

Though, I do contend you putting BA in the same category with Fields and Morel. Everyone knew it was a stretch to think Fields and Morel could become regular contributing players on a successful team. They really were thrust into their positions because the Sox simply had no better answer. BA was a highly touted prospect throughout the baseball community pre-2006. He just simply never lived up to his hype. Even blue chip prospects fail at an alarmingly high rate.
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  #23  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:15 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
IMO, the opinion of some fans on internet chat sites has nothing to do with whether Sox management was right in thinking that Flowers would be an acceptable major league starting catcher.
There are some pretty sharp posters on this board and JB is one of them. He called this one correctly. Experts can be wrong. In fact they often are.
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
this is true of all teams, though, not just the sox. What do you honestly expect the gm to say publicly? This guy sucks but we can't afford anything better right now? Every team has to take on some risks here and there with their roster for a variety of reasons. even the $200 million payroll yankees had to take flyers on retreads like travis hafner and vernon wells early this year to get enough bodies on the field. The dodgers, who have a seemingly unlimited payroll, have had to give starts to guys like chris capuano, matt magill, ted lilly, and stephen fife.

Though, i do contend you putting ba in the same category with fields and morel. Everyone knew it was a stretch to think fields and morel could become regular contributing players on a successful team. They really were thrust into their positions because the sox simply had no better answer. Ba was a highly touted prospect throughout the baseball community pre-2006. He just simply never lived up to his hype. Even blue chip prospects fail at an alarmingly high rate.
qft.
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  #25  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:41 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is online now
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So far, nobody was more wrong about Flowers than me, but AJ wasn't the answer either.
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Originally Posted by shoota
I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #26  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:54 AM
socko82 socko82 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Great point about Flowers.

They let A.J. go and all Flowers has done so far is hit the occasional home run, strike out a ton, hit less than the Mendoza line AND is probably leading the league in passed balls.

Another great move eh?

Lip
Giminez has 4 passed balls of his own and he only plays once a week. Then you throw in all the wild pitches that should have been blocked, the missed tags and the dropped pop ups. On top of it all they are both automatic outs at the plate. Our catching situation has to be the worst in the league.
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  #27  
Old 05-23-2013, 11:27 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Come on now. I loved AJ, but the Sox were in no position to hand out another bad contract to a veteran. If you are going to complain about Dunn, then you are not allowed to complain they let AJ go.
Brian:

He signed a one year deal for seven million with Texas. The Sox I understand offered four million. I'm sure there was a number between four and seven that could have kept him here and to me that's not an unreasonable deal for a veteran.

Now if AJ was asking for a multi year deal with the Sox then you have a point and I agree with you.

-----------------------

Or a related note, has anybody noticed what Liriano is doing with Pittsburgh? Where was this last July??

Have been told that former Sox relief pitcher Ray Serage, now the pitching coach with the Pirates is vastly underrated in what he does.

Lip
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  #28  
Old 05-23-2013, 11:29 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
Lip: I am disappointed, you being a stat guy. Paulie is hitting over .300 with runners in scoring position. Dunn is hitting .224 but the big problem is Rios who is hitting .179 w runners in scoring position
SCCWS:

I'm a stat guy? First time I've ever been called that.

I certainly don't consider myself a stat guy at all. I still think things like BA, HR'S, RBI'S and wins have real meaning.

Lip
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  #29  
Old 05-23-2013, 11:36 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Regarding Jones, am hearing that scouts from other teams still regard him highly and you wonder if this continues, if the Sox would include him in a multi player deal.

Simply can't understand what's wrong. I still think, in my opinion, he's tipping his pitches.

Veal by the way was sent back to Charlotte this morning so I assume Santiago moves into the bullpen and Axelrod stays in the rotation.

Lip
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  #30  
Old 05-23-2013, 11:59 AM
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FielderJones FielderJones is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Simply can't understand what's wrong. I still think, in my opinion, he's tipping his pitches.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...onesna01.shtml

His hit rate is identical to last year. His walk rate is higher by over 1 per 9 innings. To me, that's not tipping pitches, that's not finding the ****ing plate. Jones needs to throw strike 1, get ahead, and stop giving away free passes.
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