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  #31  
Old 05-22-2013, 10:38 AM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
You can't be serious. Thornton doesn't have the stuff he used to have. His velocity has declined with age and his K rate has declined as well. He's been a good reliever for the Sox for years, but the end is obviously coming. It doesn't have anything to do with "make up." He has a high-mileage arm at this point, plain and simple.

Jones has been walking people whenever he gets into a high-leverage situation. Until I see more strikes, I don't want him out there in a tight game.

He couldn't close and it wasn't because he didn't have good enough stuff...which leads me to believe that he doesn't have the make up to pitch in tight ball games.

A guy who was dominant in a setup role gets moved to closer and has struggled ever since. I don't see it as a coincidence.
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  #32  
Old 05-22-2013, 10:45 AM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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You can't be serious. Thornton doesn't have the stuff he used to have. His velocity has declined with age and his K rate has declined as well. He's been a good reliever for the Sox for years, but the end is obviously coming. It doesn't have anything to do with "make up." He has a high-mileage arm at this point, plain and simple.

Jones has been walking people whenever he gets into a high-leverage situation. Until I see more strikes, I don't want him out there in a tight game.
This is exactly what I was going to say. The lack of respect Thornton gets is ridiculous. The guy has pitched with the game on the line countless times. He didn't work out as a closer, but he was among the best setup man in baseball for years. The guy has been a major piece in the Sox pen for 8 seasons. How many relievers can say that? From 2008-2010 he threw 200.1 innings with a 2.70 ERA, 1.028 WHIP, and 11 K/9. The man is 36 years old, it has nothing to do with his "make up".
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  #33  
Old 05-22-2013, 10:46 AM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
He couldn't close and it wasn't because he didn't have good enough stuff...which leads me to believe that he doesn't have the make up to pitch in tight ball games.

A guy who was dominant in a setup role gets moved to closer and has struggled ever since. I don't see it as a coincidence.
So during all of the seasons he dominated as a setup man, he just happened to avoid all of the tight ball games?
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  #34  
Old 05-22-2013, 11:05 AM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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So during all of the seasons he dominated as a setup man, he just happened to avoid all of the tight ball games?

People talk all the time about how there is a different mindset when you pitch as a closer and try to get those last 3 outs. Thornton didn't have the right mindset to succeed in that role. It apparently has carried over into anytime he pitches in a close game the last few seasons. He simply cannot be counted on. If you feel confident with him coming in a close game thats fine but I sure as hell don't. In fact I would love to see his role diminished so everyone else would stop having to come in and clean up his messes.

I think its wrong to automatically dismiss the importance of "mental makeup" in performances. Gavin Floyd had ace stuff but for whatever reason couldn't put it together. He had trouble pitching with a lead in recent years. Seemed like a mental thing to me.
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  #35  
Old 05-22-2013, 11:23 AM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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I don't feel confident with him coming in a close game, but only because he's 36 years old and almost entirely relies on one pitch, which is losing effectiveness.
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  #36  
Old 05-22-2013, 12:48 PM
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Chez Chez is offline
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Before the last two outings against Boston, Thornton had gone 11 consecutive appearances without giving up an earned run. He gave up one[!] unearned run over that stretch. I'm not quite ready to give up on him!
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  #37  
Old 05-22-2013, 01:00 PM
hawkjt hawkjt is offline
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Matt Thornton has lost just enough off that fastball,which has always been laser straight, to be pretty hittable at this point.

But, as indicated, he has been effective until the last couple of games,so we have to hope it is just a bit of a drought.

I have not had confidence in Matt for awhile,but Veal has seemingly lost his fine control from last year,so Sox need Matt as a lefty out of the pen.


Bottom line, good game for the Sox. Great job getting out of that jam in the 7th by Crain,who has Marco Bellinini-sized stones.

Jose once again was super solid until he had to pitch out of the stretch.
This is a recurring problem for Jose. That little hitch in his full windup is very decieving for the batter,and a great rythmn move for Jose. But once he has guys on base, he loses that hitch out of the stretch and then he struggles. I am sure Coop is trying to help him get over that hump.
Jose,Axe,and even Hector,have all been very key guys to rally back into this race....keep it goin.

Oh,and kepp finally gets that first homer as a Sox and boom...it was a huge one. Loved the two out run production again...all year it has been a bright spot.

As for ''El Stallione''...I assumed it was a nickname for Rios down in PR,but maybe just Hawk doing an Carlos Lee deal.
I actually like it,because Rios seems like a flat thoroughbred racehorse out there....tall,lean,strong,athletic,graceful....he is certainly a pretty baseball player to watch,period.
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  #38  
Old 05-22-2013, 01:13 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
He couldn't close and it wasn't because he didn't have good enough stuff...which leads me to believe that he doesn't have the make up to pitch in tight ball games.

A guy who was dominant in a setup role gets moved to closer and has struggled ever since. I don't see it as a coincidence.
So, "he doesn't have the make up to pitch in tight ball games," but he was also "dominant in a setup role."

OK.
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  #39  
Old 05-22-2013, 06:39 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is online now
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Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
People talk all the time about how there is a different mindset when you pitch as a closer and try to get those last 3 outs.
And those people are likely morons.
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  #40  
Old 05-22-2013, 06:42 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is online now
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
So, "he doesn't have the make up to pitch in tight ball games," but he was also "dominant in a setup role."

OK.
Whatever. It's the common **** that people spew who just believe junk that comes out of message boards and announcers' mouths.

The guy was great for years in his 8th inning role. He has sucked for as bit because he is older and his stuff is worse, not because of the fans' perceived "mental issue." Shingo, go talk to his psychologist if you think it's something else, because the late 2000s Thornton would be great to have.

Does Drew Storen have a mental issue these days because he is no longer pitching in the 9th with "high pressure?" Does it work both ways? Answer that, Shingo.
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