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  #31  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:26 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by Whitesox029 View Post
Maybe true of Fielder, Hunter, and Martinez, but if Cabrera regresses, I don't think it will be this year. The man is positively inhuman. Same with Verlander--he's too young for his arm to just blow up. He's also way smarter than most guys who throw as hard as he does, which means he'll be able to compensate for any lost velocity.
I meant in the future. There's a track record of fat guys breaking down at their age. Verlander will continue to be a good pitcher, but not dominant. The chinks are already in the armor this year. His velocity has already decreased. Hes throwing too many change ups and he's getting hit. That Tiger team has a small window.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
  #32  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:27 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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I'm with Doub; I don't get the assertion that rebuilding with a bunch of young players automatically guarantees a playoff appearance three, four years down the road.

Calling the White Sox MLB roster terrible, pathetic when they are 4.5 games behind Detroit in late May is a bit premature. Get back to me in July.
I'm in this camp, too. I don't believe the White Sox MLB roster is "terrible" or "pathetic." Underachieving? To this point, yes. Frustrating? Sure. The Sox have several hitters producing below their career norms. In addition, the team has been hurt by injuries to key personnel. Despite that, they've managed to hang around. They are one winning streak away from being right back in the division race.

I'm not sure people know what "terrible and pathetic" means. I don't think the Sox have had a team that has fit that definition in some years. Probably 2007 would be the closest, but it's been awhile since this organization has had a 95- or 100-loss season.

If they trade Peavy, Rios, Konerko, Ramirez, Crain and Thornton, as some here seem to want, they will become "terrible and pathetic" because they don't have any MLB-ready prospects to replace them.

I just can't support the nuclear option. I don't see how it makes sense. The organization is better served to ride it out with these guys and see if they can turn it around. If they stay in the hunt into July, Hahn should try to add a bat and maybe a bullpen arm and take a shot at it. Why not?

It's real easy to sit here and say the Sox should trade any and all veterans who have value. But who exactly do you want to replace them with?
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  #33  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:34 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Another reason you don't go into a full rebuild is that the Tigers make up isn't sustainable. Fielder will eat himself out of the league.
How many more years do we have to hear this crap before people give it up? Yes, the guy is huge, he's also a freak of nature. Since 2006, he has played in 1121 of a possible 1134 games, 99%. He is probably the most durable guy in the majors year in and year out. There is nothing in his history to suggest that he is slowing down anytime soon either.
  #34  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:38 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
How many more years do we have to hear this crap before people give it up? Yes, the guy is huge, he's also a freak of nature. Since 2006, he has played in 1121 of a possible 1134 games, 99%. He is probably the most durable guy in the majors year in and year out. There is nothing in his history to suggest that he is slowing down anytime soon either.
Except every other fat ass that did the same at that age, including his dad.
  #35  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
How many more years do we have to hear this crap before people give it up? Yes, the guy is huge, he's also a freak of nature. Since 2006, he has played in 1121 of a possible 1134 games, 99%. He is probably the most durable guy in the majors year in and year out. There is nothing in his history to suggest that he is slowing down anytime soon either.
There is plenty of precedent to suggest larger guys don't hold up as well over the course of their careers. Prince's durability to this point has been great, but he's still only 29 years old. To think his durability in this decade translates automatically to the next would be foolish.

Sox fans shouldn't need a primer in that. Here's our beloved big man slugger, Frank Thomas:

Age 22-30: 1,236 GP out of 1,296 team games = 96%
Age 31-40: 1,086 GP out of 1,620 team games = 67%

Production also suffered :

Pre-30: .321/.443/.584, 174 OPS+, 19.24 PA/HR
31-40: .277/.390/.521, 135 OPS+, 19.45 PA/HR

Maybe Fielder will be the guy that breaks the mold, but it is much more historically contrarian to think that as he ages, he won't feel the affects of his weight.
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Last edited by doublem23; 05-21-2013 at 12:58 PM.
  #36  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:48 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Find me a really big guy that sustained that level after 30.
  #37  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:51 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
I'm in this camp, too. I don't believe the White Sox MLB roster is "terrible" or "pathetic." Underachieving? To this point, yes. Frustrating? Sure. The Sox have several hitters producing below their career norms. In addition, the team has been hurt by injuries to key personnel. Despite that, they've managed to hang around. They are one winning streak away from being right back in the division race.

I'm not sure people know what "terrible and pathetic" means. I don't think the Sox have had a team that has fit that definition in some years. Probably 2007 would be the closest, but it's been awhile since this organization has had a 95- or 100-loss season.

If they trade Peavy, Rios, Konerko, Ramirez, Crain and Thornton, as some here seem to want, they will become "terrible and pathetic" because they don't have any MLB-ready prospects to replace them.

I just can't support the nuclear option. I don't see how it makes sense. The organization is better served to ride it out with these guys and see if they can turn it around. If they stay in the hunt into July, Hahn should try to add a bat and maybe a bullpen arm and take a shot at it. Why not?

It's real easy to sit here and say the Sox should trade any and all veterans who have value. But who exactly do you want to replace them with?
I want another summer of in the hunt baseball. Is it possible? I dont know but we should in about a month. At that point decisions will have to be made, if our summer is over by then Thornton and Crain are FAs after this year so thats a easy one. Paul is a FA after this year and might be done and can not be counted on for the future. Ramirez, Peavy and Rios are tricky. They are not really that expensive for how they are playing but will they really make much of a difference in the future of this team? Also what type of return will you get for them?

I guess the best I can hope for is one more summer of competitive baseball. If the Sox can get back into it in the next month, I would love for management to go balls out at the trade deadline. This may be the last shot in quite sometime but I am talking as a fan not someone that has a financial interest in the team.
  #38  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:56 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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You love your children no matter how much or how badly they screw up. You just have to hope they get it right at some point.
Well said!
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  #39  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:59 PM
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I want another summer of in the hunt baseball. Is it possible? I dont know but we should in about a month. At that point decisions will have to be made, if our summer is over by then Thornton and Crain are FAs after this year so thats a easy one. Paul is a FA after this year and might be done and can not be counted on for the future. Ramirez, Peavy and Rios are tricky. They are not really that expensive for how they are playing but will they really make much of a difference in the future of this team? Also what type of return will you get for them?

I guess the best I can hope for is one more summer of competitive baseball. If the Sox can get back into it in the next month, I would love for management to go balls out at the trade deadline. This may be the last shot in quite sometime but I am talking as a fan not someone that has a financial interest in the team.
That's the big question right there. Hopefully, they play well enough that they don't have to make that decision. But, if they do fall out of it in June, they have to consider dealing those guys.

For me, you can't deal Ramirez, Peavy and Rios for middling prospects and salary relief. You better be getting some people who can play right away because you'd be creating a lot of holes that need to be filled. If the right deal isn't there to be made, then don't make it. Keep your assets and regroup in the offseason.
  #40  
Old 05-21-2013, 01:05 PM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
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Originally Posted by Moses_Scurry View Post
You love your children no matter how much or how badly they screw up. You just have to hope they get it right at some point.
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxGal85 View Post
Best.Analogy.Ever.
I don't think that's an even close to the same analogy. My children are my flesh and blood. I have helped raise them. I've been with them every day of their lives. They are a part of me.

What baseball team you root for, no matter how much you try to deny it, is a choice that at some point in your life you made.

Baseball teams are like wives/husbands. You can spend nearly your entire life together, but ultimately if all they do is make you miserable you should probably find a new one.
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  #41  
Old 05-21-2013, 01:07 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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They also have the opportunity to move one of the lefties and compete while getting younger. If Danks can come back, they should move one of them anyway. You just have to pick the right one.
  #42  
Old 05-21-2013, 01:08 PM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
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Find me a really big guy that sustained that level after 30.
Here's the thing. In the last 30 years, anyone you find you will claim it's because of steroids.
  #43  
Old 05-21-2013, 01:08 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post

For me, you can't deal Ramirez, Peavy and Rios for middling prospects and salary relief. You better be getting some people who can play right away because you'd be creating a lot of holes that need to be filled. If the right deal isn't there to be made, then don't make it. Keep your assets and regroup in the offseason.
You dont give them away at that point but then what do you do in the offseason if the return is similar? I doubt the Sox would carry 37M of extra salary knowing the team is going nowhere. My hope is that there actually is value in these 3, either at the trade deadline or offseason.
  #44  
Old 05-21-2013, 01:23 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
Find me a really big guy that sustained that level after 30.
Rick Reuschel, Smokey Burgess, Terry Pendleton, CC Sabathia, Mickey Lolich, Boog Powell, Kirby Puckett (sidelined by glaucoma), Tony Gwynn, Babe Ruth. There are others I'm sure and I left out some borderline cases. Sabathia will be 33 this year but looks to have staying power. I believe when it's all said and done Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder will be added to the list. I think you are correct in asserting that most overweight guys break down prematurely, but I'd say maybe not as young or across the board that one might assume.
  #45  
Old 05-21-2013, 01:23 PM
Moses_Scurry Moses_Scurry is offline
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Originally Posted by Bobby Thigpen View Post
I don't think that's an even close to the same analogy. My children are my flesh and blood. I have helped raise them. I've been with them every day of their lives. They are a part of me.

What baseball team you root for, no matter how much you try to deny it, is a choice that at some point in your life you made.

Baseball teams are like wives/husbands. You can spend nearly your entire life together, but ultimately if all they do is make you miserable you should probably find a new one.
If I could have flipped a switch to stop liking the Sox and start liking a different team, I would have done it a long time ago. If it were that easy we would all be Yankee and Laker fans.
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