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  #16  
Old 05-19-2013, 09:11 PM
Milw Milw is offline
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I'm known in my social circle as "Mr. White Sox" (even to other Sox fans). Even I'm having trouble caring about this team. If they're losing people like me, they need to blow it up. I don't mean just the team on the field, I mean top to bottom. Hahn can stay, because he hasn't really gotten a fair shake yet, but pretty much everybody else needs to go. This franchise is at its lowest point since probably 1999.
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2013, 10:42 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
I agree with Coppock on this one. Jerry Reinsdorf has been in hiding for some time. It leaves a bad impression like he is out of touch with the day to day operations or he no longer cares. Neither case may be true, but this low a profile will lend people to reach their own conclusions.

Of course, Jerry Reinsdorf merely having a high public profile won't change everything. But I am amazed we have seen or heard so little from him. If fans who one would consider loyal don't care, the team has a problem.
Dan:

It's possible I missed something but the last time I can recall Jerry coming out and saying something significant or meeting the press was in Washington a few years ago when he talked to the media immediately after the Williams / Guillen twitter blow-up.

He explained that he called both men in and told them to get along and keep their differences in-house.

That was what summer 2011?

These two quotes from him show how things have changed:

“Eddie and I never discussed how to talk to reporters. We’ve just been ourselves. I always though Jack Kennedy was the kind of person I looked up to in that regard. He always gave the media a fair shake and understood you guys have a job to do. Without responsible people willing to divulge some accurate information, it’s hard to do it right. It was a much better approach then Nixon, who figured the media was his enemy. Doing it Kennedy’s way just makes a lot more sense to me. After all, nobody can buy the kind of advertising Chicago teams get. What other line of work finds newspapers assigning people to follow you around and write about how the business is doing every day? At Balcor, we have to hire a public relations firm to get our names in the paper. When baseball teams get that for free it makes sense to cooperate." - Jerry Reinsdorf to Bob Logan from the book 'Miracle on 35th Street.' Pg. 154. Published 1983.

“The idea that I must talk to the media in order to know what is going on with our fans or the public is ludicrous. I communicate with fans on an almost daily basis and often hear comments from people on the street and in the ballpark. We have committed a lot of resources to market research each year, whether it is telephone or internet polling, mall intercepts, focus groups or in-park surveys. We believe these surveys are the most impartial way to hear from our fans. I don't think a media interview gives me the same type of insight into what our fans think and feel. Believe me, our fans tell us. They care and they are passionate. I like that about sports. The fact is that I do speak publicly when there is an issue of importance to our fans and to the franchises. I owe that to our fans. But again, I don't really think people want to hear from me or go to the game to see me. I hope not.” – Jerry Reinsdorf quoted on the “official” White Sox web site, www.whitesox.com, August 16, 2004.

Lip

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  #18  
Old 05-20-2013, 02:46 AM
fungo bat fungo bat is offline
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I don't think it's a matter of Reinsdorf not caring anymore. I figure he's about at that age where he's decided to turn over some of the decision making to others in the organization. And that means he becomes less visible on a day-to-day basis.

When he bought the team in 1981 with Einhorn, the Sox had a big uphill battle to fight. The franchise was down, the park was in terrible condition, and the fan base was bottoming out. Naturally, they pulled out all the stops and made the Sox relevant again on the Chicago sports scene by signing Fisk and win the Western Division by 20 games just 2 years later.

Do the Sox seem to be trending downward as far as popularity is concerned? Let's just say Sox fans have a "show me" attitude, unlike fans on the other side of town. When the Sox aren't winning, the fans stay away. It's been that way for many years. And this year's team has shown so far that's it's nothing more than a .500 club that is unlikely to threaten for the division title. There are just too many holes and weaknesses that become evident over the course of a 162-game season.
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:55 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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I love Coppock.IMO, Coppock on Sports was easily the greatest radio sports show in Chicago history, it launched Dan McNeil's career. OTOH, it probably cost us 25 years of listening to Terry Boers, a guy who never would have been on radio if it weren't for Chet, but I would bet him the $500 about Reinsdorf not seeing the fans. I was at a patio party last year and he was there shaking hands and taking pictures. That is not to say that Chet's thoughts are totally incorrect. I do think JR needs to make himself a little more accessible to the media. He and Eddie were probably overexposed media-wise when they first began, but I think now it's just the opposite. Jerry needs to find a happy medium. I really think fans like to hear from ownership.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:03 AM
kufram kufram is online now
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If Jerry was putting quotes out regularly I'm pretty sure people here would be saying that he should just "shut up and sign cheques". I was thinking about how people wanted Peavy to just shut up and pitch when he was injured not so long ago.

This story doesn't actually say anything important.

Have the Chicago White Sox ever actually been a "big market team"? I'm not saying that they haven't but it has never felt like a big market team to me. I don't look at attendance figures historically but have they ever been consistently better than middle of the pack as far as attendance goes?
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:27 AM
24thStFan 24thStFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kufram View Post
Have the Chicago White Sox ever actually been a "big market team"? I'm not saying that they haven't but it has never felt like a big market team to me. I don't look at attendance figures historically but have they ever been consistently better than middle of the pack as far as attendance goes?
IMHO the Sox have never acted like a big market team by signing a BIG NAME free agent STAR. If we had one now (e.g., Upton, Wright, etc.) perhaps there would be more "casual fan" interest in this team. Instead we signed Adam Dunn and Jeff Keppinger.

It's a shame the Chicago White Sox have a small market mentality, because we could have dominated the Central division for the last 10 years. Instead we abdicated to Detroit...yes, freaking Detroit!
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:38 AM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
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What is interesting about this perspective? It's the same pants pissing, whiny crap about ownership.

I'm not so sure you didn't write it yourself Lip.
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:02 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bobby Thigpen View Post
What is interesting about this perspective? It's the same pants pissing, whiny crap about ownership.

I'm not so sure you didn't write it yourself Lip.
Not enough references to "Chicago's American League team."
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:06 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24thStFan View Post
IMHO the Sox have never acted like a big market team by signing a BIG NAME free agent STAR. If we had one now (e.g., Upton, Wright, etc.) perhaps there would be more "casual fan" interest in this team. Instead we signed Adam Dunn and Jeff Keppinger.

It's a shame the Chicago White Sox have a small market mentality, because we could have dominated the Central division for the last 10 years. Instead we abdicated to Detroit...yes, freaking Detroit!
I think Jake Peavy was a big name addition. Dunn could have been but he he has not produced. Just as important, Chris Sale is a big name or should be in Chicago.

I don't live in Chicago but I have posted here for several years that I think one major problem w White Sox attendance is they must not have a solid corporate season ticket base. That job falls on their internal marketing/sales staff. I know in Boston, most major companies buy season tickets. Before retirement, I was in Purchasing and we had Red Sox seats and so did most of our suppliers. Certainly Chicago has major companies. Does the Cell have a lot of corporate boxes??? Does the company that you work for have corporate seats or boxes??
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:16 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24thStFan View Post
IMHO the Sox have never acted like a big market team by signing a BIG NAME free agent STAR. If we had one now (e.g., Upton, Wright, etc.) perhaps there would be more "casual fan" interest in this team. Instead we signed Adam Dunn and Jeff Keppinger.

It's a shame the Chicago White Sox have a small market mentality, because we could have dominated the Central division for the last 10 years. Instead we abdicated to Detroit...yes, freaking Detroit!
Big name free agent signings rarely work out, and that era is quite possibly over.

Also, every time the Sox do make a "big market" move, (Peavy trade, Dunn signing) people complain, too. Kobayashi Maru for the front office.

Last edited by SephClone89; 05-20-2013 at 09:26 AM.
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  #26  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:23 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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Other teams are in much worse situations than the White Sox are in. The Indians are in first place and are dead last in MLB average attendance. They are averaging a little over 15,000 per game. The Indians play in a one team market and play in a downtown stadium (something I wish the White Sox were in) and they're in first place and are not drawing at all. Yesterdays game featured Felix Hernandez against Masterson and they only had 19,000 at the game on a Sunday afternoon. I realize the Indians have not had winning teams in awhile and they have taken the League by surprise being in first place now, but I still think Cleveland is still in a much worse situation than what the White Sox are. The Indians also don't have the TV-Radio money the White Sox have. If attendance doesn't pick up in Cleveland I wouldn't be surprised to see the owners put the team up for sale, or even move the team.
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  #27  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:26 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by SephClone89 View Post
Big name free agent signings rarely work out, and that era is quite possibly over.

Yes the days of signing a Cabrera type before he is past his prime seem to be over with the early lock ups now a days.
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  #28  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:29 AM
kufram kufram is online now
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I don't live in Chicago

No matter what anyone does the White Sox will never be the Red Sox or the Cubs. It is a socio-economic non-starter. Not that many corporate people are going to go to U.S. Cellular in south Chicago. I don't care if they do myself. If winning was everything to me I'd be a Yankees fan. If full stadia was a driving factor I'd be a Red Sox fan. I'm a White Sox fan. I just think it is a lot harder to put a very good, consistently performing major league baseball team together than those of us who don't do it professionally think.

Fantasy baseball does make it appear easier perhaps.

I like the kind of people that play for the White Sox. I like the loyalty and family atmosphere that Reinsdorf appears to value in his company. I wouldn't know because I don't know the man but he seems to be liked by players like PK, and that tells me something. Sure, I'd like to win the division more often and always make the playoffs but we don't and I don't think it is necessarily anyone's fault.... it is just very hard to do given the circumstances.
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  #29  
Old 05-20-2013, 10:41 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kufram View Post
If Jerry was putting quotes out regularly I'm pretty sure people here would be saying that he should just "shut up and sign cheques". I was thinking about how people wanted Peavy to just shut up and pitch when he was injured not so long ago.

This story doesn't actually say anything important.

Have the Chicago White Sox ever actually been a "big market team"? I'm not saying that they haven't but it has never felt like a big market team to me. I don't look at attendance figures historically but have they ever been consistently better than middle of the pack as far as attendance goes?
Kufram:

The first few seasons of the new park 91 through the strike, the Sox averaged almost three million fans a season. It was the combination of a new park and a pretty good team.

Also to your point about winning divisions / making playoffs. Cleveland (smaller market) dominated the division in the 90's...Minnesota (smaller market) dominated the division in the 00's. It can be done (as it has been done elsewhere say in St. Louis and Philadelphia) with some regularity (and I'm not even talking about the Yankees or Boston who seem to make the playoffs every year or nine times out of 10).

In fact despite Chicago's (and by proxy the Sox') advantages over their divisional opponents they can't seem to figure out how to do so. By advantages I mean population, size of radio/TV deals, advertising opportunities, corporate sponsorship opportunities.

Lip

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 05-20-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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  #30  
Old 05-20-2013, 10:44 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is online now
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Other teams are in much worse situations than the White Sox are in. The Indians are in first place and are dead last in MLB average attendance. They are averaging a little over 15,000 per game. The Indians play in a one team market and play in a downtown stadium (something I wish the White Sox were in) and they're in first place and are not drawing at all. Yesterdays game featured Felix Hernandez against Masterson and they only had 19,000 at the game on a Sunday afternoon. I realize the Indians have not had winning teams in awhile and they have taken the League by surprise being in first place now, but I still think Cleveland is still in a much worse situation than what the White Sox are. The Indians also don't have the TV-Radio money the White Sox have. If attendance doesn't pick up in Cleveland I wouldn't be surprised to see the owners put the team up for sale, or even move the team.
Golden:

You have a tendency to automatically say that teams can be moved. I disagree, there aren't locations where teams can move anymore out there save maybe Montreal. Cities and fans know this, that "threat" is going by the wayside in my opinion.

And the Indians are in the same situation as Sox fans, haven't been a consistent winner in a while, seems to get off to good starts then fade in the second half. Not the way to draw fans or influence people.

Lip
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