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  #166  
Old 05-01-2013, 12:49 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
no more of this "we're Chicago's American League team" nonsense.
I would like to know when the last time anyone affiliated with the Sox actually said this, or anything to that effect, because I think the answer is going to come back in the 25+ year range
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  #167  
Old 05-01-2013, 12:56 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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I would like to know when the last time anyone affiliated with the Sox actually said this, or anything to that effect, because I think the answer is going to come back in the 25+ year range
It goes back 30 years to when Eddie Einhorn said that he thought that marketing the White Sox as the southside team or the alternative/rival to the Cubs was the wrong way to do it and that they should market themselves as "Chicago's American League team." Now whether or not that is still the view that is held by the marketing department, I don't know. The ownership is still the same and the White Sox have ceded a lot of ground to the Cubs in terms of marketing and have basically allowed the Cubs to bill themselves as Chicago's team. A lot of the reasons for that go back 30 years, but the reprecussions are still being felt today.
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  #168  
Old 05-01-2013, 01:07 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Exactly.

Just because something isn't spoken directly in the past few minutes or years doesn't mean the overall philosophy / outlook has changed.

EE's comments on the minor league system and the way to win (not the will to win...LOL) appear to be in place as well.

All you have to do, as Sox 5187 has said, is to look at history on both fronts in this discussion.

Just my opinion and until I see something change tangibly in these areas I'll continue to believe what came directly out of the horses mouths.

Lip
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  #169  
Old 05-01-2013, 01:13 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
It goes back 30 years to when Eddie Einhorn said that he thought that marketing the White Sox as the southside team or the alternative/rival to the Cubs was the wrong way to do it and that they should market themselves as "Chicago's American League team." Now whether or not that is still the view that is held by the marketing department, I don't know. The ownership is still the same and the White Sox have ceded a lot of ground to the Cubs in terms of marketing and have basically allowed the Cubs to bill themselves as Chicago's team. A lot of the reasons for that go back 30 years, but the reprecussions are still being felt today.
I'm not really going to sweat over something some guy said 30 years ago that probably nobody who matters even remembers. The Cubs don't market themselves as "Chicago's Team." They market the Wrigley experience. The Sox marke their on field product ("Make an Impact", "Respect the Game," etc.). That's a problem because they've fielded approximately 5 truly competitive teams in the last 30 years.

You want to know why else they've ceded so much ground to the Cubs? Because they built an ugly stadium in a neighborhood they blighted with parking lots and the team they usually run out there is mediocre. It's not anything more than that. Build a better park, build it in better neighborhood, or build a better team.

Look how fast the Blackhawks went from complete irrelevance to fan favorite. The city responds to winning.
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  #170  
Old 05-01-2013, 01:15 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I'm not really going to sweat over something some guy said 30 years ago that probably nobody who matters even remembers. The Cubs don't market themselves as "Chicago's Team." They market the Wrigley experience. The Sox marke their on field product ("Make an Impact", "Respect the Game," etc.). That's a problem because they've fielded approximately 5 truly competitive teams in the last 30 years.

You want to know why else they've ceded so much ground to the Cubs? Because they built an ugly stadium in a neighborhood they blighted with parking lots and the team they usually run out there is mediocre. It's not anything more than that. Build a better park, build it in better neighborhood, or build a better team.

Look how fast the Blackhawks went from complete irrelevance to fan favorite. The city responds to winning.
Great post.
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  #171  
Old 05-01-2013, 01:20 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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As I stated earlier:

"But if you want to turn this franchise around, two things are needed which simply haven't been done by this ownership:

1. Consistently win...make the playoffs three years in a row or five times in seven years and then see what the fan / media situation is."


Winning ALWAYS is the key to anything regarding a sports team in Chicago. That is absolutely 100% true. I just feel the other areas are important too, it's all part of the package and the Sox have failed in these areas a lot over the past 30 years.

Lip
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  #172  
Old 05-01-2013, 02:12 PM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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Lip - I also truly respect your opinion, but in this case conclude you are showing the signs of being exposed to a thirty year marketing program.

Obviously winning brings out fans, it's getting fans out there when you're not winning which is the tricky part. You are - in fact - taking on the Cubs by differentiating yourself. Going head to head against them is a losing proposition.
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  #173  
Old 05-01-2013, 02:23 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
As I stated earlier:

"But if you want to turn this franchise around, two things are needed which simply haven't been done by this ownership:

1. Consistently win...make the playoffs three years in a row or five times in seven years and then see what the fan / media situation is."

Winning ALWAYS is the key to anything regarding a sports team in Chicago. That is absolutely 100% true. I just feel the other areas are important too, it's all part of the package and the Sox have failed in these areas a lot over the past 30 years.

Lip
There are other things the Sox can do better, I just don't think that anyone cares that somebody called the Sox Chicago's AL team 33 years ago...

I have a feeling if you walked around Chicago today and asked people, "What did Eddie Einhorn say about the Sox in 1980?" the response you would get are:

75% - Who is Eddie Einhorn?
24.9% - Who cares about 1980?
0.1% - Chicago's American League team

The Sox have plenty of on and off field challenges; that's not one of them.
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  #174  
Old 05-01-2013, 03:24 PM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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Most younger White Sox fans don't even know who Einhorn is. He was the one who wanted to move the White Sox to Florida. When that didn't happen he sold most of his shares of the White Sox to Reinsdorf and has basically disappeared from Chicago. He lives in Arizona and has nothing to do with the White Sox. He didn't like being the second team in Chicago and would of rather moved the team to St. Pete. Anybody who would rather have a team in St. Pete instead of Chicago is an idiot. The Rays are in a one team market and have had good teams recently and they still can't draw or make any type of big money.
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  #175  
Old 05-01-2013, 03:30 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Golden:

Your statement that EE has nothing to do with the Sox appears to be incorrect.

The 2013 Sox media guide lists him on the board of directors as well as being the vice chairman.

There has also been speculation that his daughter wants to own the Sox when JR leaves the scene.

JR and EE have been friends and partners for over 50 years. Given JR's loyalty I seriously doubt that EE's opinions and views aren't at least considered...and we know what he's said about how to win and what the Sox place in the Chicago market should be.

Lip
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  #176  
Old 05-01-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Most younger White Sox fans don't even know who Einhorn is. He was the one who wanted to move the White Sox to Florida. When that didn't happen he sold most of his shares of the White Sox to Reinsdorf and has basically disappeared from Chicago. He lives in Arizona and has nothing to do with the White Sox. He didn't like being the second team in Chicago and would of rather moved the team to St. Pete. Anybody who would rather have a team in St. Pete instead of Chicago is an idiot. The Rays are in a one team market and have had good teams recently and they still can't draw or make any type of big money.
Einhorn is probably one of the biggest reasons why the Cubs, under the Tribune ownership, took off in popularity. The Trib bought the Cubs around the same time JR and EE bought the Sox. Einhorn is the one who wanted to take the Sox off free television and have his company, Sportvision, broadcast the games. This was before Chicago was wired for cable. The Sox disappeared from the public because to watch them, you had to buy a box from Sportsvision. While such a move today is routine, in 1981, it was bad decisionmaking.
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  #177  
Old 05-01-2013, 05:58 PM
Standing Ovation Standing Ovation is offline
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1. My kids would choose a week at Disney World over a summer at US Cellular. Shoot, the way the team is playing, I would too.


2. Not sure if it had to be another Midwest League team to take over in Kane County,but if it didn't, the Sox blew it by letting the Cubs taking over the Cougars.
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  #178  
Old 05-01-2013, 07:14 PM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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I need to make myself clearer. Changing the marketing approach is mutually exclusive from fielding a competitive team. I do not expect the GM, scouts and coaches shift their priorities away from success on the field while a new marketing program is rolled out. Should the team be successful it will compliment the marketing efforts and visa versa.

Someone posted they didn't understand the marketing correlation between Disney World, gambling boats etc. and I'll try to explain that as well. Marketing, in it's purest form, is the art of separating people from their cash because they want your product. A Disney vacation, a trip to the Horseshoe and a White Sox game are all products. They all compete with one another for a household's entertainment dollar. The White Sox have to start marketing their entire product - not just piecemeal parts of it. Their approach just isn't cohesive enough.

A few years ago, SI had an article which complimented the Cubs on being able to turn a baseball game into a "fiesta" (I think that was the term they used) and it focused on the entire event being a celebration of sorts in addition to a baseball game. The White Sox are, and have been, missing that element for a long time. People go to Disney to have a good time (personally I don't think that's possible), they go to Horseshoe to have a good time but with the White Sox - as has been posted on this blog for over ten years - well they must win in order for people to call it a good time. Sure winning is important, and the entire organization needs to look at each loss as a failure, but that cannot be the outlook of the fans, and correctly marketing this team would go a long way toward separating the two.

For those who posit that if the White Sox win people will fill the place, I respectfully ask for an explanation of last September's attendance while the White Sox were in first place. That stretch of games showed me something is very wrong in White Sox Country. People didn't show up.

Last edited by KingXerxes; 05-01-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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  #179  
Old 05-01-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
2. Take on the Cubs directly...no more of this "we're Chicago's American League team" nonsense. Start fighting for your own turf. The fact is that Cub fans simply aren't going to come and support the Sox when the Cubs are out of town and visa versa with Sox fans. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN... which makes the entire premise behind the "we're Chicago'a American League team" faulty. Take the bastards on.

Lip
Didn't the Sox take on the Cubs at the end of '04 or in '05 when Brooks first came aboard? Or am I'm confusing myself with those Pepsi commercials where Magglio loaded up Sosa's tacos with hot sauce?
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  #180  
Old 05-01-2013, 08:04 PM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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Didn't the Sox take on the Cubs at the end of '04 or in '05 when Brooks first came aboard? Or am I'm confusing myself with those Pepsi commercials where Magglio loaded up Sosa's tacos with hot sauce?
It has been a very strange approach toward the Cubs. Guillen trashing Wrigley comes to mind as being the most prominent, or Reinsdorf - almost at the pinnacle of accomplishment (going to the '05 World Series and waiting for the NL pennant winner) - uttering something which I considered the height of stupidity about wishing St. Louis would win the pennant in order to vex Cubs fans. Why in God's name he would invoke anything about the Cubs in that situation was, and still is, beyond me.

I don't think that's what meant by "taking on the Cubs" or at least I hope not, because in my opinion it makes the White Sox look small.
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