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  #46  
Old 04-29-2013, 06:31 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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The 2005 Sox got outstanding starting pitching and magnificent relief work, in many cases from pitchers who had career years in 2005.

The pitching was helped by excellent fielding.

The 2005 offense generally scored just enough runs to win, because when the homers weren't flying they could still manufacture a run.

After 2005, KW made all the right moves in an effort to repeat. He added a durable quality starter, a LH slugging DH, and a versatile bench bat who had started elsewhere. At mid-season, he added a reliever who pitched great down the stretch. These moves just didn't work out.
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  #47  
Old 04-29-2013, 06:53 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
The 2005 Sox got outstanding starting pitching and magnificent relief work, in many cases from pitchers who had career years in 2005.

The pitching was helped by excellent fielding.

The 2005 offense generally scored just enough runs to win, because when the homers weren't flying they could still manufacture a run.

After 2005, KW made all the right moves in an effort to repeat. He added a durable quality starter, a LH slugging DH, and a versatile bench bat who had started elsewhere. At mid-season, he added a reliever who pitched great down the stretch. These moves just didn't work out.
Most of the moves before and during the 2006 season were solid. (But I will point out that Chris Young was one of the top prospects in all of baseball, and you simply don't see anyone else trading that level of prospect for solid, but not great veteran starers like Vasquez). We probably would have been worse in 2006 without them.. But in 2007 they really clowned it up (he started listening to Guillen who wanted a "move those runners up" offense) with Erstad, and Jerry Owens; and when things disintegrated, they didn't take the opportunity test our young prospects (Sweeney had 45 at bats; Owens had 356. Gio didn't pitch at all) and they traded for an awful Richar (with friendly Arizona). And then Williams got rid of the better prospects in the ill-fated Swisher trade. Fortunately, the Quentin trade #1 was fantastic. But since that time, he's made some good small moves, but most of his real trades have been particularly poor.
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  #48  
Old 04-29-2013, 08:37 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Most of the moves before and during the 2006 season were solid. (But I will point out that Chris Young was one of the top prospects in all of baseball, and you simply don't see anyone else trading that level of prospect for solid, but not great veteran starers like Vasquez). We probably would have been worse in 2006 without them.. But in 2007 they really clowned it up (he started listening to Guillen who wanted a "move those runners up" offense) with Erstad, and Jerry Owens; and when things disintegrated, they didn't take the opportunity test our young prospects (Sweeney had 45 at bats; Owens had 356. Gio didn't pitch at all) and they traded for an awful Richar (with friendly Arizona). And then Williams got rid of the better prospects in the ill-fated Swisher trade. Fortunately, the Quentin trade #1 was fantastic. But since that time, he's made some good small moves, but most of his real trades have been particularly poor.
Owens got so many at bats because Erstad, who was supposed to be the starting center fielder, got hurt. Owens was not suuposed to be anywhere near the 2007 team until everyone started getting hurt. The real problem with the 2007 team was the bullpen, which was Kenny's "pet project" that year.
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  #49  
Old 04-29-2013, 11:38 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Yep...guys who all threw 95 and straight as a string, that is, when they could get the ball over the plate.

Lip
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  #50  
Old 04-30-2013, 06:12 AM
wassagstdu wassagstdu is offline
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Most of the moves before and during the 2006 season were solid. ... But in 2007 they really clowned it up (he started listening to Guillen ... But since that time, he's made some good small moves, but most of his real trades have been particularly poor.
2007 is when KW stopped listening to Ozzie.
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  #51  
Old 04-30-2013, 08:12 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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(But I will point out that Chris Young was one of the top prospects in all of baseball, and you simply don't see anyone else trading that level of prospect for solid, but not great veteran starers like Vasquez).
Uh, yes you do.
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  #52  
Old 04-30-2013, 08:14 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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2007 is when KW stopped listening to Ozzie.
Oh for God's sake, nobody here has any insight into the dynamics of the Sox front office.
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  #53  
Old 04-30-2013, 12:04 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Uh, yes you do.
Name them. Let's see them.
Hope you can though....we should get 2 for Peavy if that's the case.
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  #54  
Old 04-30-2013, 02:40 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Name them. Let's see them.
The Royals traded Wil Myers, whose 10x the prospect Young ever was, along with some other good looking parts, to Tampa for James Shields, who is a solid but not great veteran pitcher this offseason...

Here's Vazquez and Shields, their last 3 seasons combined before they were traded. Each player started 99 games so these are their average numbers per season... Guess which is which:

PLAYER A - 227 IP, 102 ERA+, 216 H, 105 R, 95 ER, 58 BB, 212 K, 1.210 WHIP, 1.1 HR/9 IP, 2.3 BB/9 IP, 8.4 K/9 IP, 3.65 K/BB - 6.4 total WAR
PLAYER B - 215 IP, 108 ERA+, 205 H, 106 R, 99 ER, 54 BB, 194 K, 1.209 WHIP, 1.3 HR/9 IP, 2.3 BB/9 IP, 8.1 K/9 IP, 3.58 K/BB - 10.7 total WAR

Last edited by doublem23; 04-30-2013 at 02:49 PM.
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  #55  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:33 PM
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asindc asindc is offline
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Name them. Let's see them.
Hope you can though....we should get 2 for Peavy if that's the case.
Wasn't Melky Cabrera traded to acquire Javier Vazquez, the pitcher you claim no one would trade anyone of significance for?
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  #56  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:38 PM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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Wasn't Melky Cabrera traded to acquire Javier Vazquez, the pitcher you claim no one would trade anyone of significance for?
Yes, and this was AFTER Vazquez bombed in NY already.
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