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  #46  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:20 PM
Bob Roarman Bob Roarman is offline
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"Did you box, Brian? I did a lot of fighting in the street and in the ring."

Hahaha, oh my. Ohhhh my.
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  #47  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:26 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milw View Post
Just pointing out the inaccuracy of your straw man argument.
I guess, although, do you have any kind of citation or context for that quote? I don't doubt Beane at one point may have said it, but just a single sentence in isolation can be taken wildly out of context. I could very easily see him meaning that he can't watch the games personally because, as management, it's more difficult to do your job when you develop an emotional attachment to your employees (players). You don't have to dig too deep on this board to find plenty of garbage players the Sox have trotted out there the last few years who have ardent supporters; there are folks who defend Brian Anderson of the .227 career BA that he didn't get a fair shake. Or that Brent Lillibridge and his career .207 BA is the answer to our depth problems.

I know I usually abhor these real world/sports world metaphors, but I think this one actually works - I've been in management positions before where you have to work on restructuring or downsizing an organization and it's difficult to think of the little boxes you're crossing out as real people. It's probably the same logic he's alluding too, a guy whose that invested a team can't help but develop illogical emotional attachments to players if he watches them 162 times per year. It doesn't say anything about not wanting to have traditional scouts give him information about their observations or that they cut traditional scouting out altogether, for all we know, he just means HE'S better at HIS job if he only visualizes the players are lines in a spreadsheet or numbers on paper.



You know what Thomas Jefferson said about believing everything you read on the internet.
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  #48  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:28 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
On the contrary, I think over-reliance on advance metrics leads some people to overlook the obvious, if anything.
Over reliance on either means you're missing important information. I don't see what's so radical about that concept. Nobody making decisions should be wittingly denying themselves information about the things those decisions affect.
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  #49  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:30 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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I find it both beautiful and sad what Hawk is doing. He has every right to stick up for what he believes in and how he believes the game should be played. Its sad that he is resisting change so hard but should probably be expected from a man his age.
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  #50  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:32 PM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
So no comments on said train-wreck interview? By all accounts Hawk made a complete ass of himself. TWTW is all that matters.

What a clown. The organization needs to put this embarrassment out to pasture.
The will to win! I recorded and watch it. Wow Hawk, you are a bitter old man. Retire already. But, it's good to know you had fights in and out of the ring. Gotta show you are a tough guy!
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  #51  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:34 PM
soltrain21 soltrain21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
I find it both beautiful and sad what Hawk is doing. He has every right to stick up for what he believes in and how he believes the game should be played. Its sad that he is resisting change so hard but should probably be expected from a man his age.
The game is played exactly the same way.

Hawk apparently just wants 25 David Ecksteins.
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  #52  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:52 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...5763--mlb.html

Why the Sox continue to stick up for Harrelson and use his obnoxious quotes is beyond me. I'm sick of this man being the face of the franchise.
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  #53  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:55 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...5763--mlb.html

Why the Sox continue to stick up for Harrelson and use his obnoxious quotes is beyond me. I'm sick of this man being the face of the franchise.
If this becomes some sort of marketing campaign I'll be sick. Nothing like embracing willful ignorance and stupidity!
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  #54  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:57 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
If this becomes some sort of marketing campaign I'll be sick. Nothing like embracing willful ignorance and stupidity!
With the way the marketing has gone this season I won't be surprised if this happens.
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  #55  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:57 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Quote:
Bruce Levine ‏@ESPNBruceLevine 38s
Hawk Harrelson "TWTW " T shirts already available in White Sox gift shops courtesy of VP of marketing Brooks Boyer.
Welp.
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  #56  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:02 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
Welp.
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  #57  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:08 PM
soxnut1018 soxnut1018 is offline
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Embarrassing.
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  #58  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:17 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by hawkjt View Post
One of Hawk's favorite Hawkisms is how he likes the lower drafted pitchers,because they often have not excelled on their superior stuff,but more on their competitiveness,and mound presence.

I think this is the essence of his issue with the sabremeticians dominating the personnel aspect of baseball. Also, I think he is still holding a grudge against Billy Beane from the comments attributed to Beane in MoneyBall that were unkind to Kenny Williams and the Sox.

That is where Hawk goes off the rails...and if he lets that surface,he will look dumb. Kenney as acknowledged that he likes to listen to Hawk do games,and that Hawk was not ungracious toward Kenney in this debate.

It goes back to Hawk hating B & B also....gutless wonders that they are.
B&B, used to enjoy their show. But I don't have the time nor occasion to hear much from them. Then when I do I soon change radio stations.

I don't care what The Hawk says about baseball theory. I listen to The Hawk much the same reason I used to listen to Harry Caray, entertainment.

I find the constant bashing of The Hawk boring & repetitive. You can put that on the board.

Oh and I did hear a few minutes of B&B crosstalk on Opening Day. Bernstein was gushing, a serious mancrush, over Anthony Rizzo...how Rizzo has the best swing, how beautiful it is and how well Rizzo was going to do this season.
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  #59  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:49 PM
Stanley Stanley is offline
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No question, Hawk makes my blood boil. I mean I'm sure he's a nice guy, but he has no business being our (or anyone's) announcer anymore because he is a baby, and because of this ridiculous cronyism in the Sox organization that oftentimes runs counter to professionalism and consistency has gone on too long.

That being said, I didn't catch the MLBT throwdown today but I saw this The Will To Win thing and as much as I loathe Hawk, I can't argue with what he's saying there. It's something I've thought about a lot, being an athlete, loving baseball, and watching certain guys over the years like Beckham, for example, fall on his face despite lofty goals and hype, while someone like Matt Kemp or Andrew McCutchen (or pick someone else that was a 5th rounder or something that has gone one to be a star) can seemingly dominate the game at times.

I don't have enough time to get that deep into it right now but maybe I'll chime in later if someone else takes it from here.
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  #60  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:01 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2662 View Post
The will to win! I recorded and watch it. Wow Hawk, you are a bitter old man. Retire already. But, it's good to know you had fights in and out of the ring. Gotta show you are a tough guy!

Harrelson may well be a bitter old man who should have retired years ago. I have never liked him as an announcer except in the knowlege that he was no longer the GM, where I wasn't a fan of his talent evaluation. But I believe the etiquette of television prevented him from making his point effectively. I've heard other baseball coaches managers say pretty much the same thing.

I don't believe Harrelson was talking about a team full of David Ecksteins. I don't think he was talking about a lineup of Paul Konerkos because I think he would be looking for more speed in most of the spots in the order.

What I have heard is coaches and managers disdaining some players with monster numbers because they don't have a strong will to win. If you're comparing players achieving at similar planes of production, it isn't necessarily the player who has the better numbers who you should want on a winning team.

Harrelson isn't going to talk about the players he wouldn't take over Konerko despite their superior numbers, not for an audience anyway. But every White Sox fan has seen pitchers put up good numbers who didn't seem to care enough about winning.
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