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  #211  
Old 04-18-2013, 03:02 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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I like to go to the game with someone who is as into the game as I am. A cold beer or two, a hot dog, a good buddy or two for company (my wife qualifies) and I'm good to go. I don't need loud music or to be told when to clap or cheer. I don't need to tailgate either but I'm not averse to it if any of you want to invite me. Yes the Cubs have had in the past, and still to this day have hardcore fans whose knowledge and love for the game is the equal of any other teams fans. I've met a few of them, and been friends with some. Still I'm not going to delude myself and think that the Wrigley experience today is primarily about the game. It hasn't been marketed that way and it isn't in reality. It's one of the reasons I took the unpopular position that the Cubs could use a fresh start somewhere else. Well that ain't going to happen, so we'll see how things continue to develop on the north side.
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  #212  
Old 04-18-2013, 03:04 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
I like to go to the game with someone who is as into the game as I am. I don't need loud music or to be told when to clap or cheer. I don't need to tailgate either but I'm not averse to it if any of you want to invite me. Yes the Cubs have had in the past, and still to this day have hardcore fans whose knowledge and love for the game is the equal of any other teams fans. I've met a few of them, and been friends with some. Still I'm not going to delude myself and think that the Wrigley experience today is primarily about the game. It hasn't been marketed that way and it isn't in reality. It's one of the reasons I took the unpopular position that the Cubs could use a fresh start somewhere else. Well that ain't going to happen, so we'll see how things continue to develop on the north side.
But they rake in money hand over fist. What owner really cares about whether the paying people care about the game on the field first and foremost when they are buying tickets and $8 beers? Are you saying an owner would want to start fresh in such a situation, or only that it would create more fans who care about the team if they just got out of dodge?
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  #213  
Old 04-18-2013, 03:08 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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But they rake in money hand over fist. What owner really cares about whether the paying people care about the game on the field first and foremost when they are buying tickets and $8 beers? Are you saying an owner would want to start fresh in such a situation, or only that it would create more fans who care about the team if they just got out of dodge?
You're right they do. It's a financially winning formula that they have perfected. It's also a reason why they don't have to win. I mean can you see this kind of futility accepted in NY, LA or even Boston? Even in their 86 year drought they had some really good teams. Sometimes I get ruffled when criticized but in this case if you or anyone else thinks I'm nuts or wrong about it, I accept it. It's not a popular stance.
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  #214  
Old 04-18-2013, 03:59 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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You're right they do. It's a financially winning formula that they have perfected. It's also a reason why they don't have to win. I mean can you see this kind of futility accepted in NY, LA or even Boston? Even in their 86 year drought they had some really good teams. Sometimes I get ruffled when criticized but in this case if you or anyone else thinks I'm nuts or wrong about it, I accept it. It's not a popular stance.
No, it wouldn't be accepted in those towns. But, sadly, Chicago has accepted losing for years, in all its sports. The Bears get the most heat, but really, this isn't *that* tough a town to play in otherwise. So I guess Cubs fans feel, if we're gonna lose, why not have fun while watching it?
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  #215  
Old 04-20-2013, 07:30 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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Right now, regardless of what happens on either side of town this year, I have more faith in the White Sox turning things around than the Cubs. I really don't know what the direction the organization is going at the moment. Many Sox fans don't, and that is one reason this thread has drawn so much attention. Although I have been a critic of the organization, even I can see it puts a solid team on the field from time to time. And it does it more often than the god-awful Cubs.

For a time, I thought the Cubs may have been on the right track. But the more I see from the Cubs, the more I think they are headed for a disaster. The White Sox situation is not good, but I've come down from the ledge. I only wish I knew what their real plan was.
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  #216  
Old 04-20-2013, 02:03 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
Right now, regardless of what happens on either side of town this year, I have more faith in the White Sox turning things around than the Cubs. I really don't know what the direction the organization is going at the moment. Many Sox fans don't, and that is one reason this thread has drawn so much attention. Although I have been a critic of the organization, even I can see it puts a solid team on the field from time to time. And it does it more often than the god-awful Cubs.

For a time, I thought the Cubs may have been on the right track. But the more I see from the Cubs, the more I think they are headed for a disaster. The White Sox situation is not good, but I've come down from the ledge. I only wish I knew what their real plan was.
How in the world can you think the Sox are on a better path? Look at the Cubs' minor league system. Look at the philosophy of tanking 2-3 seasons to be a ligit contender. Not that they will all pan, out, but those players are much more promising than anything the Sox have. We are treading water.
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  #217  
Old 04-20-2013, 02:21 PM
ChicagoG19 ChicagoG19 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
How in the world can you think the Sox are on a better path? Look at the Cubs' minor league system. Look at the philosophy of tanking 2-3 seasons to be a ligit contender. Not that they will all pan, out, but those players are much more promising than anything the Sox have. We are treading water.
The Cubs can tank 2-3 years and still draw 39,000 a game. If the Sox tanked 2-3, we are looking at Expos-type attendance. I say this as a die-hard Sox fan, but it is the reality of being 2nd-fiddle in the city in terms of popularity.
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  #218  
Old 04-20-2013, 03:53 PM
Noneck Noneck is online now
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I only wish I knew what their real plan was.

Their plan is to make money and they have achieved this goal.
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  #219  
Old 04-21-2013, 07:03 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
How in the world can you think the Sox are on a better path? Look at the Cubs' minor league system. Look at the philosophy of tanking 2-3 seasons to be a ligit contender. Not that they will all pan, out, but those players are much more promising than anything the Sox have. We are treading water.
It's not that I think that the Sox are on a better path or better said a great path. I just think historically the Sox tend to build better clubs in the long run. I am not certainly not happy with the team and I don't expect much in the short run. This team needs fixing.

As far as the Cubs building a real winner, I won't believe anything until I see it. I don't know how many I have heard that hype from the Cubs and their promising young talent. Remember Felix Pie or whatever his name was? And I have my doubts about Theo. There is too much hype surrounding him, too. Also, I have no faith in Ricketts.

But I do agree with you that the Sox are treading water. And while many want Hahn to make some moves, I don't know what he can do in the immediate future. My optimism comes only from historical performnances and I am not jumping for joy right now. This team is bad and will stay that way for a while. But the Cubs? Like I said, I will believe it when I see it.
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  #220  
Old 04-21-2013, 07:10 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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Originally Posted by ChicagoG19 View Post
The Cubs can tank 2-3 years and still draw 39,000 a game. If the Sox tanked 2-3, we are looking at Expos-type attendance. I say this as a die-hard Sox fan, but it is the reality of being 2nd-fiddle in the city in terms of popularity.
The Cubs will still draw well, but to assume these numbers is no longer realistic. Even many Cub fans, especially older ones, are sick of hearing the Hope Springs Eternal stuff. 39,000 a game? I don't know. Maybe with tickets sold. But actual people in the seats will not equal that. The Cubs can no longer assume they can do anything they want. Once 2008 happend, things began to change.

But you're right about the Sox. The fan base just isn't strong enough fo the team to tank it like the Cubs are doing.
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  #221  
Old 04-21-2013, 09:51 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Remember the good old days, when we had countless threads arguing about whether or not the lineup could afford to carry a #9 hitter who hit .220 and liked to party but played great defense?

Now we have a DH hitting cleanup who is hitting less than .100!
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  #222  
Old 04-21-2013, 03:43 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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If this organization wants to rise above mediocrity, it needs to stop privileging loyalty over performance among its scouts, coaches and player development people.
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  #223  
Old 04-21-2013, 04:01 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
If this organization wants to rise above mediocrity, it needs to stop privileging loyalty over performance among its scouts, coaches and player development people.

Heck yes! I was dumbfounded by the last round of promotions in this area. People should have lost jobs, not been promoted.
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  #224  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:25 AM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
If this organization wants to rise above mediocrity, it needs to stop privileging loyalty over performance among its scouts, coaches and player development people.
Agreed, but need to add Marketing.

As an aside, the White Sox once had a guy who walked around with a microphone introducing songs and such when there were breaks in the game. What was his name? I was talking with a friend this weekend, and neither of us could remember the name. My guess was STEPHEN, but I need confirmation. Breakfast is riding on this.
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  #225  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:38 AM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
If this organization wants to rise above mediocrity, it needs to stop privileging loyalty over performance among its scouts, coaches and player development people.
Rising above mediocrity is secondary to making money, the only way anything really changes is if they stop making money.
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