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View Poll Results: Who is the Worst Big Name or Free Agent Signing in White Sox History?
Adam Dunn- .184/.311/.695 over 2+ seasons 58 32.77%
Steve Sax- .236/.289/.603, ended up in LF 4 2.26%
Cory Snyder- .188/.228/.527- completely lost w/WSox 5 2.82%
Jaime Navarro- 25-43, 6.06 ERA, 1.69 WHIP 100 56.50%
Ron Bloomberg- .231-5-22, 3 years, $600K guaranteed 4 2.26%
Other? 6 3.39%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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  #76  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:52 PM
Goose Goose is offline
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Without having the luxury of looking at the numbers right now, my memory of David Wells was not particularly good.

My vote goes for him. Dude ate too many cheeseburgers which resulted in I'm-too-fat-to-pick-up-a-grounder back spasms.
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  #77  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:11 PM
GABP GABP is offline
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Wells was traded to the Sox, not signed.
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  #78  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:13 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Seriously. Watch the game.

Stats are only meaningful in an argument if you are using them to argue something that you can see is true. If you are using stats to argue something that you can see is clearly untrue, if you are using to argue that Dunn was a good offensive player last season, all you are proving is that statistics can lie.

If you say Dunn's numbers really weren't so bad last year, you weren't paying attention to the game and were looking at the wrong numbers because there are plenty of numbers that will tell you he was a bad offensive player last season.
I'm in TDog's camp on this one. Always have been.

Perfect example right now would be the people telling us that Keppinger is playing a good second base with Beckham out. Watch the balls that get through the hole to his left. Look at the bad throws to first that haven't necessarily resulted in non-outs but still were horrible. Look at the number of 4-6 Fielder's Choice outs instead of 4-6-3s because of his poor range or poor throws.
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  #79  
Old 04-17-2013, 08:46 PM
rainbow6 rainbow6 is offline
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Default Adam Dunn - Why Isn't Retirement Being Discussed?

Adam Dunn made at least an off-hand comment in '11 about retiring if things didn't improve; I wonder if it's time for the media/fans to raise the question of retirement to Ventura and Dunn himself?

Perhaps some type of settlement could be worked out for the remaining funds due?

As a supporter of the signing, I had empathy for Adam in '11 and defended him during his tenure as a Sox. However, I have to imagine even he realizes it's silly for him to continue to try and compete against Major League pitching.

From the Sox perspective, I have to think this subject has come up?

Any goodwill/empathy I've had towards Adam will quickly desolve if he doesn't take the initiative and walk away from the game on his own terms.
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  #80  
Old 04-17-2013, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow6 View Post
Adam Dunn made at least an off-hand comment in '11 about retiring if things didn't improve; I wonder if it's time for the media/fans to raise the question of retirement to Ventura and Dunn himself?

Perhaps some type of settlement could be worked out for the remaining funds due?

As a supporter of the signing, I had empathy for Adam in '11 and defended him during his tenure as a Sox. However, I have to imagine even he realizes it's silly for him to continue to try and compete against Major League pitching.

From the Sox perspective, I have to think this subject has come up?

Any goodwill/empathy I've had towards Adam will quickly desolve if he doesn't take the initiative and walk away from the game on his own terms.
I can think of about 30 million reason why he would not retire.
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  #81  
Old 04-17-2013, 08:59 PM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Seriously. Watch the game.

Stats are only meaningful in an argument if you are using them to argue something that you can see is true. If you are using stats to argue something that you can see is clearly untrue, if you are using to argue that Dunn was a good offensive player last season, all you are proving is that statistics can lie.

If you say Dunn's numbers really weren't so bad last year, you weren't paying attention to the game and were looking at the wrong numbers because there are plenty of numbers that will tell you he was a bad offensive player last season.
You are just setting up straw man after straw man. I never said you shouldn't watch the game. I also never said that Dunn's numbers weren't so bad last year, that would depend on your definition of bad.

It is laughable to think that you should watch the game, make a conclusion, and then cherry pick stats that support your conclusion. Why are you even looking for stats if you've already drawn a conclusion beforehand? You may as well keep adding epicycle after epicycle to the path of Mars to support the eye test conclusion that we are the center of the solar system.
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  #82  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:49 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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I know Dunn's been bad, and he did have that historically bad season, but his numbers weren't atrocious last year. Not worth his salary, but certainly worthy of an everyday player.

Navarro didn't even belong in a pen. Plus that money was a ton for us back then.
If one could somehow adjust the salaries to today's standards, I think Navarro would be the worst signing. Besides being bad on the field, he was bad off of it too and didn't to anything to help clubhouse chemistry.



Bob
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  #83  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:52 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Originally Posted by gosox41 View Post
If one could somehow adjust the salaries to today's standards, I think Navarro would be the worst signing. Besides being bad on the field, he was bad off of it too and didn't to anything to help clubhouse chemistry.



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He was the pitching version of The Choice.
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  #84  
Old 04-17-2013, 10:06 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Originally Posted by RKMeibalane View Post
He was the pitching version of The Choice.
Haha. Nice.

Also not sure if anyone point out in the posts as I haven't (and won't read them all) that we traded for Steve Sax. It's impossible for him to be the worst free agent signing.



Bob
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  #85  
Old 04-18-2013, 01:51 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by MISoxfan View Post
You are just setting up straw man after straw man. I never said you shouldn't watch the game. I also never said that Dunn's numbers weren't so bad last year, that would depend on your definition of bad.

It is laughable to think that you should watch the game, make a conclusion, and then cherry pick stats that support your conclusion. Why are you even looking for stats if you've already drawn a conclusion beforehand? You may as well keep adding epicycle after epicycle to the path of Mars to support the eye test conclusion that we are the center of the solar system.
I do like your analogy of the efforts to maintain a geocentric universe, and I'm sorry if you believe I exaggerated your point. It was a point made by others over many months, and I'm sorry if you felt singled out. But that analogy would be more approriate for the people who try to reduce baseball to an ever-more-detailed spreadsheet.

It isn't a matter of cherry-picking stats. I am not arguing that Miguel Cabrera had a down season for the Tigers last season because his OPS was below 1.000 for the first time in three seasons and because his walk total was the lowest since 2008. What I am saying has nothing to do with creating more complex mechinisms to prove my point. The numbers I quoted for Adam Dunn would not have been compatible with any successful baseball season unless they came in conjuinction with some awesome pitching numbers.

But if you watched the games, you don't need stats to tell you Dunn has had a terrible White Sox career. You may be able to find numbers that tell you he didn't do that badly. His on-base percentage last season was .001 lower than Alex Rios' on-base percentage. And Dunn hit more home runs.

Everyone who watched him on a consistent basis should have been able to see he had a terrible season last year. You don't need to add up the numbers to see he was a failure. We can see his season went horribly wrong. A closer look at the stats, beyond will show you precisely what went wrong. That's the way numbers are used most everywhere outside of baseball. It isn't cherry-picking. It's closer to what they call item analysis in the ed biz.

The numbers are about baseball. Baseball isn't about the numbers. The bias is in what stats people consider the benchmark for success and insistence on applying the standards uniformly.
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  #86  
Old 04-18-2013, 02:42 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I'm in TDog's camp on this one. Always have been.

Perfect example right now would be the people telling us that Keppinger is playing a good second base with Beckham out. Watch the balls that get through the hole to his left. Look at the bad throws to first that haven't necessarily resulted in non-outs but still were horrible. Look at the number of 4-6 Fielder's Choice outs instead of 4-6-3s because of his poor range or poor throws.

I don't want to act like he's anything special out there, but he's a million x a million times better than rainbow relay getz out there, and people pined over and over for his defensive acumen. By default, anything Keppinger apologists say seem tame.
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  #87  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:33 AM
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LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Can we at least bench this guy for a week or so, anybody will be better than him for right now.
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  #88  
Old 04-18-2013, 08:41 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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Lets just say that Jordan Danks starts hitting whenever he is put in the lineup. Lets just say Adam Done continues to be as bad as he has been. You then give Jordan Danks a starting job and he then continues to hit. Do you then bench your $14 million dollar DH? I have a feeling this whole situation is not going to turn out well for the White Sox, Adam Done said a couple of years ago that he would quit the game when it was no longer any fun. I can't believe he's having any fun now. It will be curious to see how this turns out.
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  #89  
Old 04-18-2013, 11:07 AM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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I don't think I want to live in a world where Adam Dunn has a sub 0.100 record and is playing every day. We're about 3 days away from that world becoming a reality.

After dealing with it all the way through 2011, I hope the Sox actually try to do something about it this year. Benching him, putting him on the DL with a phantom injury to get rehab ABs, anything. The time has passed to let the problem correct itself.

Dude's not gonna retire, he's got ~20$ Mil still coming his way. I would have no problem with the Sox making his playing life so miserable he demands a release and is off the books for 2014.
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  #90  
Old 04-18-2013, 11:54 AM
Crestani Crestani is offline
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Kenny Williams worse signing ever..!!
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