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  #31  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:06 AM
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Yeah, but that couldn't have been foreseen. He had stroke in '43 and was hospitalized in '44. That said, the guy battled drugs and alcohol his adult life. Players like Babe Ruth, who the media covered for, could get away with that. The first black player since the game was segregated wouldn't be so lucky, as everyone would be trying to find a reason integrating the game wouldn't be a good idea. Gibson was one of the best to play the game, but would not have been a good choice for breaking the color barrier.
Understatement. Gibson makes Bench and Piazza look like Tyler Flowers.
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  #32  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:29 AM
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Understatement. Gibson makes Bench and Piazza look like Tyler Flowers.
Well, I did say one of the best, not one of the best catchers.
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  #33  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:31 AM
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Well, I did say one of the best, not one of the best catchers.
Ok, fair enough. He makes Babe Ruth look like Adam Dunn.

(Ruth was a strike out king who held the career record until Slammin' Sammy Sosa broke it).
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  #34  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:11 AM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Ok, fair enough. He makes Babe Ruth look like Adam Dunn.

(Ruth was a strike out king who held the career record until Slammin' Sammy Sosa broke it).
Are you sure? I thought Reggie Jackson was the record-holder before Sosa.

Edit: Looks like Jackson is still the record-holder.
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  #35  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:16 PM
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Oh, absolutely, I don't think there's any question that Jackie Robinson was the right man for the job, when you understand what he went through, especially those first few years in Brooklyn, it's just amazing he was able to endure it all. And even if he wasn't the best black baseball player of his time, he was still a very, very good player.
Oh yeah Doub, I know you understand that. But there are still people that believe players like Gibson, Paige, or even Monte Irvin should've been chosen over Robinson, but I don't think these people fully understand the reasons they weren't chosen.
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  #36  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:26 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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I don't know which books you read, but you may want to go back and re-read them. happydude already touched on this , but Jackie Robinson wasn't chosen because he was the best player in the Negro Leagues. He was chosen because Rickey felt he was the best for integrating baseball. Josh Gibson had a history of emotional issues and baggage. Satchel Paige was too old. So no, it wasn't disrespectful. There was a little more thought put into it than simply who was the best player available.
I realize this but alot of Negro League players did resent MLB on the way they chose Robinson and I don't blame them. Robinson was a great player and he turned out to be the perfect player chosen but it's still a slap in the face to players who put their dues in and were passed up because baseball deemed them unworthy. What Jackie Robinson went through was pure hell but at the same time he did relish in his fame and he snubbed his nose at alot of black players who paid alot more dues in the Negro Leagues than Jackie Robinson. I'm not trying to bash Robinson but the movie 42 only showed a part of him that like in 1947 that baseball wants us to see or know about.
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  #37  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:21 PM
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I realize this but alot of Negro League players did resent MLB on the way they chose Robinson and I don't blame them. Robinson was a great player and he turned out to be the perfect player chosen but it's still a slap in the face to players who put their dues in and were passed up because baseball deemed them unworthy. What Jackie Robinson went through was pure hell but at the same time he did relish in his fame and he snubbed his nose at alot of black players who paid alot more dues in the Negro Leagues than Jackie Robinson. I'm not trying to bash Robinson but the movie 42 only showed a part of him that like in 1947 that baseball wants us to see or know about.
Please provide proof that Robinson snubbed his nose at black players. I've never read anything of the sort. And It's not like MLB had a black player draft and only chose Robinson. None of what you are saying makes ANY sense. The MLB didn't choose him. Branch Rickey did. And the way MLB players and fans verbally abused him that first season, it's ridiculous to say that MLB chose him. You say you don't want to bash Jackie, but in a backhanded way, you are. Sounds like you wanted the movie to deliver dirt on him. Sorry you were disappointed.
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  #38  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:11 PM
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Please provide proof that Robinson snubbed his nose at black players. I've never read anything of the sort. And It's not like MLB had a black player draft and only chose Robinson. None of what you are saying makes ANY sense. The MLB didn't choose him. Branch Rickey did. And the way MLB players and fans verbally abused him that first season, it's ridiculous to say that MLB chose him. You say you don't want to bash Jackie, but in a backhanded way, you are. Sounds like you wanted the movie to deliver dirt on him. Sorry you were disappointed.
Honestly if you read a few books on the Negro Leagues instead of watching a movie geared towards kids you will learn a little more on how alot of the old black players felt. I don't mean to say Robinson was hated by players in the Negro Leagues because he was viewed as a hero in alot of ways but alot of players did feel slighted by him. It's pretty well known about his clashes with Campanella and Newcombe and even if you watch interviews by Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell or Buck O'Neil they give him respect but they always made a point of saying that there were others who were better players.

There's actually a movie that gives a little insight to how Robinson was viewed. It wasn't the best movie but it's called "Soul of the Game" I read alot of baseball books and I found it interesting how Robinson was viewed by alot of black players in the old Negro Leagues.

I'm not trying to bash Robinson in a backhanded way either but after reading more and more about the Nero Leagues I kinda feel bad for the forgotten players.
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  #39  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
Honestly if you read a few books on the Negro Leagues instead of watching a movie geared towards kids you will learn a little more on how alot of the old black players felt. I don't mean to say Robinson was hated by players in the Negro Leagues because he was viewed as a hero in alot of ways but alot of players did feel slighted by him. It's pretty well known about his clashes with Campanella and Newcombe and even if you watch interviews by Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell or Buck O'Neil they give him respect but they always made a point of saying that there were others who were better players.

There's actually a movie that gives a little insight to how Robinson was viewed. It wasn't the best movie but it's called "Soul of the Game" I read alot of baseball books and I found it interesting how Robinson was viewed by alot of black players in the old Negro Leagues.

I'm not trying to bash Robinson in a backhanded way either but after reading more and more about the Nero Leagues I kinda feel bad for the forgotten players.
First of all, you have no idea who I am, what I've read, and what movies I've seen. Second, it's been stated REPEATEDLY here that there were better players in the Negro Leagues than Jackie Robinson. You seem to keep missing that point. Third, you said he snubbed his nose to other black players. Prove it. Post a link to back it up. This interview given by Don Newcombe sure doesn't sound like someone treated badly by Jackie. But yeah, I'm sure you'll just blow it off as someone not wanting to stir controversy. But until you provide proof to back up your assertions, nothing you say will have merit.

Last but not least...there is a museum dedicated to the players from the Negro Leagues. They may not have played in the Majors, but they have not been forgotten. And if this particular movie gets someone to learn about the Negro Leagues, then it is a success.
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  #40  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:39 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
Honestly if you read a few books on the Negro Leagues instead of watching a movie geared towards kids you will learn a little more on how alot of the old black players felt. I don't mean to say Robinson was hated by players in the Negro Leagues because he was viewed as a hero in alot of ways but alot of players did feel slighted by him. It's pretty well known about his clashes with Campanella and Newcombe and even if you watch interviews by Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell or Buck O'Neil they give him respect but they always made a point of saying that there were others who were better players.

There's actually a movie that gives a little insight to how Robinson was viewed. It wasn't the best movie but it's called "Soul of the Game" I read alot of baseball books and I found it interesting how Robinson was viewed by alot of black players in the old Negro Leagues.

I'm not trying to bash Robinson in a backhanded way either but after reading more and more about the Nero Leagues I kinda feel bad for the forgotten players.
I know what you mean- the musuem is great- but relatively new and unless someone visit KC- not a huge impact.

Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell- all should be as well known as Jackie- and as well known as Mickey Cochrane, Cy Young and Ty Cobb-
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  #41  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:51 PM
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First of all, you have no idea who I am, what I've read, and what movies I've seen. Second, it's been stated REPEATEDLY here that there were better players in the Negro Leagues than Jackie Robinson. You seem to keep missing that point. Third, you said he snubbed his nose to other black players. Prove it. Post a link to back it up. This interview given by Don Newcombe sure doesn't sound like someone treated badly by Jackie. But yeah, I'm sure you'll just blow it off as someone not wanting to stir controversy. But until you provide proof to back up your assertions, nothing you say will have merit.

Last but not least...there is a museum dedicated to the players from the Negro Leagues. They may not have played in the Majors, but they have not been forgotten. And if this particular movie gets someone to learn about the Negro Leagues, then it is a success.
The museum was made in 1990, years after many Negro leaguers had died. I don't have links for this but Negro Leaguers were pretty upset they had to wait so many years to finally get a museum. As for providing proof on why Negro Leaguers felt slighted by Robinson, I'll admit on searches, I find nothing but read a few more books on the Negro leagues. I'm not trying to get into a argument with you but I know what i've read and I have no reason to believe it's not true. Maybe read a book on Josh Gibson, I really can't recall which book it was where I learned all this but I know it was in more than one book.
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  #42  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:06 PM
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The museum was made in 1990, years after many Negro leaguers had died. I don't have links for this but Negro Leaguers were pretty upset they had to wait so many years to finally get a museum. As for providing proof on why Negro Leaguers felt slighted by Robinson, I'll admit on searches, I find nothing but read a few more books on the Negro leagues. I'm not trying to get into a argument with you but I know what i've read and I have no reason to believe it's not true. Maybe read a book on Josh Gibson, I really can't recall which book it was where I learned all this but I know it was in more than one book.
Well,yes, Negro Leaguers have a right to be upset. I don't dispute that at all. My issue with you is you saying Jackie Robinson snubbed his nose at other black baseball players, and you have yet to provide proof of this.

As far as Josh Gibson goes...the man died in January, 1947, before Robinson broke into the majors. Are you saying he was snubbed by Jackie from his grave?
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  #43  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:15 PM
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I know what you mean- the musuem is great- but relatively new and unless someone visit KC- not a huge impact.

Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell- all should be as well known as Jackie- and as well known as Mickey Cochrane, Cy Young and Ty Cobb-
Thanks, yeah that is what what I mean, Robinson is a legend by all means but these guys put the time into building the Negro Leagues and they were never really mentioned and I think that is why alot of Negro League players felt slighted or even snubbed by Robinson. Jackie Robinson spent a very short time in the Negro Leagues and all of a sudden he's the toast of the town while these guys who did alot in promoting the Negro Leagues finally got their due much later in life.
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  #44  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:17 PM
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Well,yes, Negro Leaguers have a right to be upset. I don't dispute that at all. My issue with you is you saying Jackie Robinson snubbed his nose at other black baseball players, and you have yet to provide proof of this.

As far as Josh Gibson goes...the man died in January, 1947, before Robinson broke into the majors. Are you saying he was snubbed by Jackie from his grave?
What is your opinion on Larry Doby? I don't think he's recognized enough. Obviously, he wasn't the first, but he was the first in the AL. The leagues meant a whole lot more back then than it does now.
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  #45  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:24 PM
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What is your opinion on Larry Doby? I don't think he's recognized enough. Obviously, he wasn't the first, but he was the first in the AL. The leagues meant a whole lot more back then than it does now.
I agree. He should be recognized more. He broke in only a few weeks after Robinson. Unfortunately, I think the reason he's not given more recognition is because he didn't have the success Robinson had, and he played in Cleveland. Had he played for the Red Sox or the Giants, I'm sure it would've been a different story. He did go through the same abuse as Jackie, but he only played in 29 games, and didn't have much of an impact for the team his rookie season. Robinson won the inaugural Rookie of the Year award.
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