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  #31  
Old 04-11-2013, 09:56 PM
SoxThunder SoxThunder is offline
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Does Jerry Riensdorf being a two-team owner hurt the Sox, help the Sox or neither? Forbes listed the Bulls value at $800M and their net profit at $34M; they listed the Sox value at $692M and their net profit at $23M. A business ower can decide to pay out profits in the form of a cash dividend or leave profits in the business as retained earnings. Do you think Jerry only lets "Bulls profits" build up/benefit the Bulls and "Sox profits" build up/benefit the Sox? Or do you think Jerry sometimes opts to take his Bulls dividends in cash and pour this personal wealth into the Sox (or vice versa)? I guess we'll never know unless Jerry shows us his tax returns and financial statements. In an ideal world, I'd like to see to see Jerry sell the Bulls and invest $800M of his personal money into making the Sox a world class organization. Unfortunately, his interests are divided and he'll never sell the cash cow that is the Bulls.
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  #32  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:01 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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RK:

When a TV deal is signed there is no such thing as an 'opt-out' because of the record of the club in the future, attendance figures or TV ratings.

A station can ask to reopen the deal (and in some contracts there is a clause specifically for this) but the team doesn't have to agree to it

In most cases you sign the deal, that's it...regardless of whether the team wins 100 games a year for the next five years or 65 for the next five seasons.

---------------------------------------

Noneck:

You do make some valid points as does blandman regarding the franchise. It's pretty clear to me based on things like Forbes and what I've been told the franchise is making money and hasn't lost money in "a long time" (direct quote told to me by someone who used to work for the Sox).

In a way it's a little like the Cubs for a number of years. They were filling the place up despite being bad on the field. Why try to win when you can't get one more person in the seats? It's a sound business decision.

In the Sox case it's why try to produce a consistant winning franchise. A perennial playoff team when the cost to buy or build such a team is huge with no guarantees that it will work out because of bad decisions, injuries ect. Better to stay the course and maximize profits. Again a sound business decision although to me the object of a sports franchise first and foremost is to win, profits come second (or third...) since that's why the game is played.

Based on everything that's been written in this thread it seems the fans have no real idea how to get out of this cycle either. The front office probably doesn't either unless you count "luck" as an alternative.

Lip

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 04-11-2013 at 10:07 PM.
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  #33  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:02 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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My understanding is that the Bulls ownership group and the Sox ownership group are separate entities consisting mostly of different members, and in neither group is Reinsdorf a majority owner.
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  #34  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:05 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Sox Thunder:

Because the Sox and Bulls have different boards of directors I'm very sure JR can't (or won't even if he could) take money from the Bulls to give to the Sox.

As far as kicking in his personal fortune? Again I'm very confident the answer to that is a resounding no. JR is a shrewd businessman first, second..always. He'll never be confused say with Artie Moreno or Mike Ilitch as far as being willing to use his personal money in the quest to win. That's not him.

Lip
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  #35  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:11 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Sox Thunder:

Because the Sox and Bulls have different boards of directors I'm very sure JR can't (or won't even if he could) take money from the Bulls to give to the Sox.

As far as kicking in his personal fortune? Again I'm very confident the answer to that is a resounding no. JR is a shrewd businessman first, second..always. He'll never be confused say with Artie Moreno or Mike Ilitch as far as being willing to use his personal money in the quest to win. That's not him.


"You people are crazy if you think I'd spend my own money on this team. It's not as though I'm the owner. Oh, ****."
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  #36  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:12 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Frater:

In regards to the Sox, I've been told and have read that JR is the majority owner. I've seen different figures anywhere from 5% of the club to 21%.

The Sox have so many owners though, that even that smaller amount is enough to claim title. Also in his contract he specifically has been given the power to run the day to day operations of the franchise without having to consult the other owners and or board members. If he decided this off season, "I'm spending 200 million on payroll and am going to go out and sign every free agent all-star I can get my hands on," he has the power to do so.

I assume that only in the case of the usual business standard clauses (i.e. doing something illegal, defrauding the organization, acting like he has lost competency) can he be removed for his authority.

Lip
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  #37  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:14 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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RK:

Well it is a fact that one time earlier in his professional business career, JR was asked what he did for a living.

His answer?

"OPM"

Other people's money.

Lip
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  #38  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:18 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
RK:

Well it is a fact that one time earlier in his professional business career, JR was asked what he did for a living.

His answer?

"OPM"

Other people's money.

Lip
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  #39  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:25 PM
SoxThunder SoxThunder is offline
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I didn't suggest that any profits would transfer directly from the Bulls to the Sox. The only way the Bulls' success could benefit the Sox is if JR took his personal Bulls dividends and invested this personal wealth into the Sox. I hope JR will surprise us all in his old age and splurge some of his personal fortune to bring more championships to the South Side
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  #40  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:30 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Lip,

The solution is creating a sound minor league system, paying for good scouting, having a good international scouting staff, using the money accumulated throughout the years to get quality fa's, having a marketing staff that knows how to treat its customers so fans actually feel wanted when they go to park, hiring good baseball people that have total control of their responsibilities, competing with the other Chicago club for the future fan and Im sure Im forgetting something else.

But they really dont have to do any of this to make money. The lease deal makes it very easy for this club to do this without much risk. Finally I do agree with you that winning should take priorty but profits can trump practically anything in todays world.
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  #41  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:42 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Noneck:

Again, valid points. If it's simply about "business" then the Sox are doing exactly what they have to do to fulfill those requirments.

I just feel it should be more than 'just business' because the Sox are also a public trust. And I think the lease deal is a major part of why they do things they way they do. I think it's anything below 1.2 million the state has to make up the difference up to a certain amount (it may be or may have been 1.5 million). I know those were the original lease terms, that may have been changed somewhat when the new lease was negotiated. Either way the lease is one of the best in baseball.

Lip
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  #42  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:44 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Part of the problem to me, honestly, from a marketability standpoint, the Sox are an INCREDIBLY boring team now.

Konerko is kind of... mr. steady as he goes, that does not attract casual fans.

Adam Dunn is not the Adam Dunn of Washington and Cincy

Rios and his attitude are easy to dislike

Even Sale is about as quiet of a Cy Young Candidate as you can get

The rest of the guys are a bunch of facial nobodies, no one cares about Beckham, Tank, Ramirez, De Aza.

A dad who is say, a baseball fan, but not really a Cubs or Sox fan, is not going to take his son to USCF to see anyone special.

There is no star, no face of this franchise. Its a slap to Konerko to say that, but he is as marketable as Skim Milk.

So you have a team of national nobodies, who are not bad enough to get good draft picks, and not good enough to really contend, and you get... the White Sox....

In many ways, I feel bad for Brooks Boyer. He can adjust prices (a big win for die hards) and he can tinker with marketability ideas, but at the end of the day, we are 10 games into the season, and its hard to be excited about anything we have seen. I am not saying the season is a lost cause, I am saying they are not going to draw unless they (a) get more known, better, SUPERSTAR level players or (b) Decide they want to win 95 games a year.

Until then, this is the new White Sox, same as the old White Sox. The Farm moving up to 27 from 30 is pretty insignificant, and the fan base needs a shot of life from Hahn and Kenny Williams. They won't see a huge attendance jump, they won't land a big tv deal, and they will fall behind.
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Last edited by Domeshot17; 04-11-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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  #43  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:00 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
The way I see it, the Sox are doing exactly what they need to in order to maximize their profits with our fanbase. Spending too much comes with the risk of losing tens of millions if the team doesn't reach expectations. Conversely, rebuilding properly to produce a true winner reduces revenue in the short term. Building a high 70 to low 80 winner consistently, affording for luck, has allowed the team to appear competitive (and produced significant revenue). I don't think that fans will go away if we rebuild is an issue so much as the lost short term revenue. Keeping our average team out there is a successful model for them, at least as long as we continue to support this system with our money.
Few will ever give you this credit, but you are dead on, munch. This is *exactly* what this franchise is doing.
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  #44  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:01 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Dome:

You can get a fair number of fans I'd say who will already say they have fallin' behind compared to what the other divisional teams did this off season. And you also make some valid, sound points in your comment.

Lip
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  #45  
Old 04-11-2013, 11:14 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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This sounds like a good time to include something that I have held back before but because this discussion has turned towards the business aspect of the Sox, what the franchise is or is not doing and the reasoning behind it, I thought I'd mention it.

Some of you might remember in the thread I started on the new show "Sports Talk Live!" on Comcast Sports Chicago that I included a story I was told by an insider about a meeting a few months ago between CSN-Chicago and the owners of the teams that have a stake in that TV channel.

I also gave details about how the person in charge of the CSN web site apologized profusly to JR and admitted that CSN is simply not marketing the Sox very well. Said person, (his name is listed in the other thread) then asked JR if he had any ideas or suggestions for CSN about how they could do a better job with the Sox.

Here is what I was told JR's response to that question was.

"I don't care what you do as long as you make me more money..."

Now on the face of it when I was told that, I was stunned a little because without knowing if there was anymore to it or the context, that sounds pretty hard-core. (i.e. it's only about the business end and that's all I care about)

I thought that JR had changed somewhat over the past 10 years or so, that he wasn't the "shark" that he was earlier when he owned the team. That at least a part of him now cared about winning and the fans even if that meant cutting into the profit margin. Since I was told that comment, and it comes from a person that I trust very, very much, I just don't know anymore.

Maybe Noneck is right and he has continually said, in essence "the leopard (JR) hasn't changed his spots..."

Just thought I'd pass this along. Make of it what you will.

Lip
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