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  #151  
Old 04-03-2013, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
If the Comiskey's had PK's money the Baseball Palace might still be with us.
Nope. Skyboxes were needed for revenue enhancements and there was no place to put them in Comiskey. That is the main reason why new Comiskey was built. I know they put some in Wiggley, but I have never heard anyone describe them as being nice or desirable.
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  #152  
Old 04-03-2013, 08:43 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Nope. Skyboxes were needed for revenue enhancements and there was no place to put them in Comiskey. That is the main reason why new Comiskey was built. I know they put some in Wiggley, but I have never heard anyone describe them as being nice or desirable.
I was thinking of that the other day, what if the sky boxes were put on the roof? You'd have to change the way the lights were set up and it would probably cost quite a bit. There probably was a way that Old Comiskey could have been remodeled so that it allowed more modern amenities such as sky boxes, but it would have cost a lot. It would have been nice if when they opened up the new park they re-designed Old Comiskey in a way that would allow for those things (I think that was what was originally proposed in fact). Oh well. We have a nice park now, of course it took about ten years for it become nice.
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  #153  
Old 04-04-2013, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Nope. Skyboxes were needed for revenue enhancements and there was no place to put them in Comiskey. That is the main reason why new Comiskey was built. I know they put some in Wiggley, but I have never heard anyone describe them as being nice or desirable.
The Sox did add Skyboxes in 1982 on either side of the press box in the upper deck from 3rd base to 1st base, probably not enough to give them the revenue they wanted but they could have extended them all the way down the lines but the sight lines were pretty bad down in the corners at the old place.

My original point though was that old Comiskey down through the years was not maintained as well as Wrigley because the Comiskey's money came from baseball while Wrigley had all that chewing gum money. Taking Skyboxes out of the equation, if the Comiskey family had the money Wrigley had, old Comiskey would probably still be with us.
Somone posted a couple months ago that the Comiskey's were devastated when the Cardinals pulled out of Comiskey in 1959 and played their final season at Soldier Field. They actually counted on and needed the rental money the Cards paid them, did not know they counted on that money that much.

Back to skyboxes, the downfall of Comiskey II was that they built one extra tier of skyboxes which led to the steep upper deck which fans avoided in droves. They could have kept 2 tiers of skyboxes if they did not build the club level seats. I give the Sox credit for fixing the errors they made including the remake of the upper deck but unless they start over it will always be a little steep up there for a lot of fans.

Here's a question; if old Comiskey was still with us would it be the tourist attraction that Wrigley is? I will say maybe a little but it all comes down to location, location, location.
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  #154  
Old 04-04-2013, 08:09 AM
Red Barchetta Red Barchetta is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
The Sox did add Skyboxes in 1982 on either side of the press box in the upper deck from 3rd base to 1st base, probably not enough to give them the revenue they wanted but they could have extended them all the way down the lines but the sight lines were pretty bad down in the corners at the old place.

My original point though was that old Comiskey down through the years was not maintained as well as Wrigley because the Comiskey's money came from baseball while Wrigley had all that chewing gum money. Taking Skyboxes out of the equation, if the Comiskey family had the money Wrigley had, old Comiskey would probably still be with us.
Somone posted a couple months ago that the Comiskey's were devastated when the Cardinals pulled out of Comiskey in 1959 and played their final season at Soldier Field. They actually counted on and needed the rental money the Cards paid them, did not know they counted on that money that much.

Back to skyboxes, the downfall of Comiskey II was that they built one extra tier of skyboxes which led to the steep upper deck which fans avoided in droves. They could have kept 2 tiers of skyboxes if they did not build the club level seats. I give the Sox credit for fixing the errors they made including the remake of the upper deck but unless they start over it will always be a little steep up there for a lot of fans.

Here's a question; if old Comiskey was still with us would it be the tourist attraction that Wrigley is? I will say maybe a little but it all comes down to location, location, location.
All this skybox revenue talk makes we wonder if back in the 40s, some dad took his son to a ballgame and said..."Some day son, there are going to be a bunch of small air-conditioned rooms right below the upper deck where a bunch or rich people and company representatives can come to the ballpark, eat, drink and watch the game on TV."
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  #155  
Old 04-04-2013, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Here's a question; if old Comiskey was still with us would it be the tourist attraction that Wrigley is? I will say maybe a little but it all comes down to location, location, location.
On it's own, it's hard to say for sure, we all know one of the big draws about Wrigley is also the atmosphere around the park and even Old Comiskey would still be right next to a 16-lane superhighway, surrounded by parking lots, and still would have spent 40 years just a few blocks away from a relatively notorious high rise project... Not exactly any kind of welcoming environment, even compared to Wrigleyville at it's nadir prior to the Tribune Hype Machine.

Buuuuuuuuuut... If the Sox still had Old Comiskey and the Cubs have Wrigley, I definitely think you'd get a LOT more tourist element coming to Chicago to see both our Jewelbox era ballparks. Right now the Sox capture what? MAYBE 5% of the tourist market in the city and that's almost entirely reliant on Yankees and Red Sox fans coming to Chicago to see their own teams. I think with Old Comiskey you'd see a lot more tourists.
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  #156  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:15 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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On it's own, it's hard to say for sure, we all know one of the big draws about Wrigley is also the atmosphere around the park and even Old Comiskey would still be right next to a 16-lane superhighway, surrounded by parking lots, and still would have spent 40 years just a few blocks away from a relatively notorious high rise project... Not exactly any kind of welcoming environment, even compared to Wrigleyville at it's nadir prior to the Tribune Hype Machine.

Buuuuuuuuuut... If the Sox still had Old Comiskey and the Cubs have Wrigley, I definitely think you'd get a LOT more tourist element coming to Chicago to see both our Jewelbox era ballparks. Right now the Sox capture what? MAYBE 5% of the tourist market in the city and that's almost entirely reliant on Yankees and Red Sox fans coming to Chicago to see their own teams. I think with Old Comiskey you'd see a lot more tourists.
That is assuming White Sox ownership had marketed the ballpark correctly. When the Tribune Company took over the Cubs (and by extension, Wrigley Field) they crowed about coming to see "Beautiful Wrigley Field!" JR and Eddie Einhorn started talking about how Old Comiskey was falling apart and was unsafe, at one point the City Council even threatened to condemn Old Comiskey. It would be quite the U-Turn for ownership go from howling about how unsafe to the ballpark is to turning into a tourist destination. I don't think many people went to Tiger Stadium to see that until it was closed.
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  #157  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:32 PM
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That is assuming White Sox ownership had marketed the ballpark correctly. When the Tribune Company took over the Cubs (and by extension, Wrigley Field) they crowed about coming to see "Beautiful Wrigley Field!" JR and Eddie Einhorn started talking about how Old Comiskey was falling apart and was unsafe, at one point the City Council even threatened to condemn Old Comiskey. It would be quite the U-Turn for ownership go from howling about how unsafe to the ballpark is to turning into a tourist destination. I don't think many people went to Tiger Stadium to see that until it was closed.
If Comiskey was maintained as well as Wrigley down through the years maybe JR and Einhorn would have marketed it better. They spent quite a lot of money in 1982 with the new scoreboard, sky boxes, new dugouts and a remake of the lower boxes. A couple of years later they tell us the park is falling apart. Bottom line is that they wanted out of the neighborhood and hoped for the move to Addison. Considering the attendance issues in the new park I still feel moving to Addison would have been the way to go for the franchise. JR and company are not dummies and I'm sure they did demographic studies and found that the majority of their fan base was in the burbs.
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  #158  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
That is assuming White Sox ownership had marketed the ballpark correctly. When the Tribune Company took over the Cubs (and by extension, Wrigley Field) they crowed about coming to see "Beautiful Wrigley Field!" JR and Eddie Einhorn started talking about how Old Comiskey was falling apart and was unsafe, at one point the City Council even threatened to condemn Old Comiskey. It would be quite the U-Turn for ownership go from howling about how unsafe to the ballpark is to turning into a tourist destination. I don't think many people went to Tiger Stadium to see that until it was closed.
I don't remember the old ballpark that well but everything I have read suggested that it was in that bad of shape.

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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
If Comiskey was maintained as well as Wrigley down through the years maybe JR and Einhorn would have marketed it better. They spent quite a lot of money in 1982 with the new scoreboard, sky boxes, new dugouts and a remake of the lower boxes. A couple of years later they tell us the park is falling apart. Bottom line is that they wanted out of the neighborhood and hoped for the move to Addison. Considering the attendance issues in the new park I still feel moving to Addison would have been the way to go for the franchise. JR and company are not dummies and I'm sure they did demographic studies and found that the majority of their fan base was in the burbs.
Meh, it's all opinion at this point, but they would have built the same ugly ass ballpark with all the same problems with the added benefit of being in a much less convenient location; I can't imagine they'd be drawing 15,000 people per game at this point had they made that kind of blunder. Not only would the Sox have missed out on the New Retro ballpark craze, they also would have missed out on the "Return to the City" phenomenon that most sports teams nowadays have embraced. If you think the "Chicago is a Cubs town" crap is strong now, I can't even imagine what it would be like if the Sox actually didn't play in Chicago.

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  #159  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:44 PM
getonbckthr getonbckthr is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
If Comiskey was maintained as well as Wrigley down through the years maybe JR and Einhorn would have marketed it better. They spent quite a lot of money in 1982 with the new scoreboard, sky boxes, new dugouts and a remake of the lower boxes. A couple of years later they tell us the park is falling apart. Bottom line is that they wanted out of the neighborhood and hoped for the move to Addison. Considering the attendance issues in the new park I still feel moving to Addison would have been the way to go for the franchise. JR and company are not dummies and I'm sure they did demographic studies and found that the majority of their fan base was in the burbs.
I'll be honest I would have loved for an Addison stadium. I live up by O'Hare and I hate going to The Cell. The drive through the city sucks as does the public transportation options.
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  #160  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:55 PM
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I'll be honest I would have loved for an Addison stadium. I live up by O'Hare and I hate going to The Cell. The drive through the city sucks as does the public transportation options.
If the Sox moved to Addison I'd be a Cub fan.
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  #161  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:55 PM
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I'll be honest I would have loved for an Addison stadium. I live up by O'Hare and I hate going to The Cell. The drive through the city sucks as does the public transportation options.
I agree with you, as I said before Addison was picked for a reason, it is probably right in the middle of the metro area, population and location wise, maybe a tad bit west but not enough to make that much of a difference. Only downside was no public transportation but that doesn't seem to hurt teams like the Angels or Rangers.
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  #162  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:56 PM
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If the Sox moved to Addison I'd be a Cub fan.
I probably would have been one, too
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  #163  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:58 PM
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If the Sox moved to Addison I'd be a Cub fan.
Shame on you for even thinking that.
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  #164  
Old 04-04-2013, 02:02 PM
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Shame on you for even thinking that.
It's true. Most of my family are Cubs fans, and those that aren't live in the city. Any time I go to a baseball game in Chicago, I take public transportation. If the Sox had moved to Addison in 1987 or so, I would have been 3 years old. I would have grown up in Evanston with one team in Chicago and another in Addison. I became a Sox fan by choice when I was young; one team was as easily accessible as the other (just a longer El ride). Without that ease of access, I would have attended many fewer Sox games, if any at all.
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  #165  
Old 04-04-2013, 02:02 PM
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I agree with you, as I said before Addison was picked for a reason, it is probably right in the middle of the metro area, population and location wise, maybe a tad bit west but not enough to make that much of a difference. Only downside was no public transportation but that doesn't seem to hurt teams like the Angels or Rangers.
Those are entirely different metro areas that are much more car-centric than Chicago. There is no public transporation in Anaheim or Arlington basically, so it's not really an apt comparison. Here in our own metro area, Wrigley Field has essentially no available parking and the Cubs are able to draw 35,000+ a night.

Also, the Angels and Rangers both were in the lower half of the AL in attendance before they had their respective runs of success. I have no doubt if the Sox were coming off a decade like the Angels had or the recent run Texas had, we'd be racking 30,000+ per night, too.

The problem isn't where the park is PER SE. The problem is that I'm going to be 30 years old this summer and the Sox have only won 4 playoff games in my lifetime outside of the one year they put it all together.
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