White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
Congratulations on the Rookie records for HR and RBI in April, Jose!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11-28-2011, 06:30 AM
apbaball apbaball is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Fenway posted that some museum in New England found it and had turned it over to the MLBN for airing.

This was a few years ago.....

Naturally nothing came of it apparently.

Lip
So you are saying don't hold my breath. Too bad. A Sox game from the 60s would have very cool to see. The '77 opener against the Jays is the oldest Sox game preserved and something earlier would have been nice.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-28-2011, 07:23 AM
Fenway Fenway is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Home of the Stanley Cup - BOSTON
Posts: 31,348
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Fenway posted that some museum in New England found it and had turned it over to the MLBN for airing.

This was a few years ago.....

Naturally nothing came of it apparently.

Lip
Quote:
Originally Posted by apbaball View Post
So you are saying don't hold my breath. Too bad. A Sox game from the 60s would have very cool to see. The '77 opener against the Jays is the oldest Sox game preserved and something earlier would have been nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
It is going to air on NESN this winter and then MLB later. It was a very tricky restore as very few 2 inch video tape machines still exist.

Tony Conigliaro homered in his first Fenway at bat and Curt Gowdy gushes on air at what a thrill it must be for the local youngster.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1...170BOS1964.htm

However the reason it exists is that Yawkey donated the gate to what would become the JFK Library and many famous entertainers appeared before the game - Carol Channing sang the anthem. Jackie, Caroline, John Jr, Bobby, Teddy and Rose were at the game. Yawkey paid for the tape to give to the Kennedy family.



Even with all that - the game only drew 20,000. Baseball was dead in Boston in 1964.
It will be available after the first of the year.

Lip of all people should know that restoring video from two inch tape is a crapshoot. The big problem is the playback heads spin so quickly it can peel the oxide right off the tape and destroy it - you do not get a second chance. A number of games have been lost because of this.

This tape had to be sent to California where retired engineers of Ampex went to work on it. Unlike say the Game 7 of the 1960 World Series which was a kinescope (film) and could be played back easily - old two inch tapes need to be played on a VTR of the era.

This explains in detail the problem


In any event it was decided that this game would be part of the Fenway 100th Birthday Festival on NESN which will take place in all of 2012.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:57 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chubbuck, Idaho
Posts: 26,378
Default

The story I was told from Sox historian Rich Lindberg and others is that when Bill Veeck sold the team to the current group, he felt that since he was the owner all material of that nature regarding the White Sox (i.e. old footage, highlights etc.) belonged to him and he took them.

When I spoke with Mike Veeck, he denied that accusation.

Bob Grim, the Sox director of broadcast operations has told me that the Sox never had much material before the late 70's and neither does MLB. Rich King from WGN-TV told me they don't have much on the Sox before 1983 in the station 'morgue.'

What is a fact is that according to a story in TV Guide from the mid 80's examining the question of why MLB doesn't have historical material for a lot of events was that many stations tossed out all the film they had as they were going to "electronic news gathering" (VHS) equipment in the mid 70's.

WGN-TV was specifically cited as throwing out all of the thousands of reels of film they had shot on the Sox and Cubs in the 1950's when they moved to their new location in 1962. They quoted the former news director as saying that all that film was tossed out into an alley.

Like a previous poster said, back in the day, nobody knew that this stuff would be valuable and at the time it was simply to expensive to build climate controlled warehouses to store all this film.

Unless it is contained in almost perfect conditions it will not last more than five to 10 years, it will simply break down and fall apart.

Sad but true.

Have never heard anything about a fire at Channel 44 destroying material. I also know and Hal Vickery, (Fallin Arches) can confirm this that Nancy Faust does have some material including the TV video of Dick Allen ruining Nolan Ryan's no hit bid in the 9th inning of a game and winning it with a hit.

Lip
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-29-2011, 08:26 AM
apbaball apbaball is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
The story I was told from Sox historian Rich Lindberg and others is that when Bill Veeck sold the team to the current group, he felt that since he was the owner all material of that nature regarding the White Sox (i.e. old footage, highlights etc.) belonged to him and he took them.

When I spoke with Mike Veeck, he denied that accusation.

Bob Grim, the Sox director of broadcast operations has told me that the Sox never had much material before the late 70's and neither does MLB. Rich King from WGN-TV told me they don't have much on the Sox before 1983 in the station 'morgue.'

What is a fact is that according to a story in TV Guide from the mid 80's examining the question of why MLB doesn't have historical material for a lot of events was that many stations tossed out all the film they had as they were going to "electronic news gathering" (VHS) equipment in the mid 70's.

WGN-TV was specifically cited as throwing out all of the thousands of reels of film they had shot on the Sox and Cubs in the 1950's when they moved to their new location in 1962. They quoted the former news director as saying that all that film was tossed out into an alley.

Like a previous poster said, back in the day, nobody knew that this stuff would be valuable and at the time it was simply to expensive to build climate controlled warehouses to store all this film.

Unless it is contained in almost perfect conditions it will not last more than five to 10 years, it will simply break down and fall apart.

Sad but true.

Have never heard anything about a fire at Channel 44 destroying material. I also know and Hal Vickery, (Fallin Arches) can confirm this that Nancy Faust does have some material including the TV video of Dick Allen ruining Nolan Ryan's no hit bid in the 9th inning of a game and winning it with a hit.

Lip
This would mmake a great story if the networks and teams would answer the questions. The answers sound pretty vague. The Sox never had much material before the late 70's and neither does MLB. "Never had much" sounds like a few games. What games are they?
"Rich King from WGN-TV told me they don't have much on the Sox before 1983 in the station 'morgue." Again vague. What specifically do they have before 1983? What do they have from 1983 on? The last question to ask would be what do they plan on doing with them? Collecting dust, really?

Interesting there is almost no video before the 80s but there is a ton of old radio broadcasts preserved especially from the 50, 60s and 70s.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-29-2011, 10:55 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chubbuck, Idaho
Posts: 26,378
Default

Grim's comment is along the lines of having highlights, segments, snippets from games. Not complete games.

King's comment specifically refers to highlights as well not complete games. Most TV stations 'morgue' the nightly game highlights that they use during the newscast for use in the future. (i.e. if a player is traded, signed or if a former player passes away for example...)

That is what they are used for after being shown the night of that particular game.

The reason there are radio broadcasts available is because that was the main format in use for over 40 years basically before TV really became popular. Audio tape requires storage and protection but not to the same degree as film.

Also Bob Grim told me that MLB now requires that a copy of every game be sent to league headquarters for storage.

Lip
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-02-2011, 07:44 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oswego, Illinois
Posts: 776
Default Bill Veeck

I remember being in the Bards Room at Comiskey Park in the 1977 season and the White Sox were playing replays of there games from that season on their Tvs. I don't know whether or not if Bill Veeck kept the tapes.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-02-2011, 07:50 AM
Fenway Fenway is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Home of the Stanley Cup - BOSTON
Posts: 31,348
Default

Bowie Kuhn ordered all games must be archived starting in 1977 - MLB became the custodian and this was the genesis of TWIB.

Kuhn saw what the NFL was doing with NFL Films and wanted baseball to have something in place.

By 1977 - the cost of video tape ( 3/4 inch format) made it easier to do.

MLB and NOT the teams owns the rights to past games.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-02-2011, 07:39 PM
kba kba is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 406
Default

When Channel 44 gave up the Sox contract at the end of the 1980 season, they broadcast a retrospective of the team's "WSNS years." For the years before 1977, they showed mainly still photographs with just a few video highlights -- most of them from a single 1973 game at Fenway Park.

So even then, when Veeck was still around, WSNS didn't seem to have much in their archives from the early '70's.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-03-2011, 09:37 AM
tick53 tick53 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: On The Threshold Of A Dream
Posts: 3,364
Default

Very Cool...
__________________

"I still get such a bang out of it, playing ball. The same as I did when I first came up. You get out there and the stand are full and everybody's cheering. It's like everybody in the world came to see you."

George Daniel "Buck" Weaver
1890-1956

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-04-2012, 03:30 PM
apbaball apbaball is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 32
Default 64 Sox game vs Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
It will be available after the first of the year.

Lip of all people should know that restoring video from two inch tape is a crapshoot. The big problem is the playback heads spin so quickly it can peel the oxide right off the tape and destroy it - you do not get a second chance. A number of games have been lost because of this.

This tape had to be sent to California where retired engineers of Ampex went to work on it. Unlike say the Game 7 of the 1960 World Series which was a kinescope (film) and could be played back easily - old two inch tapes need to be played on a VTR of the era.

This explains in detail the problem


In any event it was decided that this game would be part of the Fenway 100th Birthday Festival on NESN which will take place in all of 2012.
Any word on this? I would think they would show it before the season starts. Most of these networks only show the classics during the offseason.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 03-04-2012, 03:47 PM
DoItForDanPasqua DoItForDanPasqua is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Logan Square
Posts: 1,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesox029 View Post
I just found this thread and noticed something that I can't figure out: at 1:02 of the first video from game 1 in 1917, there's a shot of McGraw returning to the Giants' dugout. In the background, there's a black guy sitting with the Giants players in the dugout. It's hard to tell, but it looks like he's dressed in a bow tie. Anyone know who he might have been that he was allowed in the dugout with the players? 30 years before Jackie Robinson, I'm thinking there's no way could have been anything but an equipment manager.
I was about to post that myself. For a time with plenty of racism, John McGraw was well ahead his time. He regularly consulted with Negro League mangers such as Rube Foster and even tried to sneak a black player onto his team by saying that he was an Indian.
__________________

You can't play baseball without Pants.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:36 PM
apbaball apbaball is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
It will be available after the first of the year.

Lip of all people should know that restoring video from two inch tape is a crapshoot. The big problem is the playback heads spin so quickly it can peel the oxide right off the tape and destroy it - you do not get a second chance. A number of games have been lost because of this.

This tape had to be sent to California where retired engineers of Ampex went to work on it. Unlike say the Game 7 of the 1960 World Series which was a kinescope (film) and could be played back easily - old two inch tapes need to be played on a VTR of the era.

This explains in detail the problem


In any event it was decided that this game would be part of the Fenway 100th Birthday Festival on NESN which will take place in all of 2012.
Unfortunately, this (the 64 White Sox-Red Sox home opener in Boston) never aired.

I have not seen Fenway on this board in over a year to ask him what happened.

Is he around?
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:33 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 17,318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apbaball View Post
Unfortunately, this (the 64 White Sox-Red Sox home opener in Boston) never aired.

I have not seen Fenway on this board in over a year to ask him what happened.

Is he around?

This
should answer your question.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:30 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.