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  #121  
Old 02-13-2013, 09:48 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I am going to come back to this thread at the end of April and see how many people who hate projections and say we should play out the string before we analyze are also going nuts over the performance of our Sox over the first month, basically throwing in the towel or printing World Series tickets. Just wondering if there will be a correlation.
Considering Danks likely won't be ready for that first month too, I wouldn't doubt a really bad start.
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  #122  
Old 02-13-2013, 09:53 AM
MUsoxfan MUsoxfan is offline
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No, but there are agreements among experts that will be true. The Tigers will win our division. Handily. The experts all agree. And it will happen. It's as close to a sure thing as there is. Sure as for a long stretch, the Yanks won their division. And everyone picked them to do so as well. Because they were just so much better than everyone else. And their division. And it was a no brainer.

The Tigers are the best team in baseball. Maybe that's debatable, but to most people that's clear.. We are fighting to stay middle of the pack, talent-wise, in a division that got better around us. That's debatable too, but to most people that's clear. I have no trouble believing we aren't winning the division. It's as closer to impossible as it is to possible. A lot closer.
So what would you have done to the roster to surpass the unbeatable Tigers?

Also, what about all the same experts that had Baltimore in last place this past season?
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  #123  
Old 02-13-2013, 09:54 AM
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No, but there are agreements among experts that will be true. The Tigers will win our division. Handily. The experts all agree. And it will happen. It's as close to a sure thing as there is. Sure as for a long stretch, the Yanks won their division. And everyone picked them to do so as well. Because they were just so much better than everyone else. And their division. And it was a no brainer.

The Tigers are the best team in baseball. Maybe that's debatable, but to most people that's clear.. We are fighting to stay middle of the pack, talent-wise, in a division that got better around us. That's debatable too, but to most people that's clear. I have no trouble believing we aren't winning the division. It's as closer to impossible as it is to possible. A lot closer.
As close to a sure thing as Derrick Rose being a bust of epic proportions?
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  #124  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:01 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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As close to a sure thing as Derrick Rose being a bust of epic proportions?
I am not saying he didn't bring it on himself, or the extreme negativity doesn't sometimes warrant it, but good lord can this die? It is almost becoming straw man in the sense that instead of refuting a statement it just gets brought up that he was wrong about Derrick Rose and outside the personal vendetta is just kind of tired (not from you just in general).

I mean, we had poster's who called Gordon Beckham the next Derek Jeter, should that be brought up EVERY...SINGLE...TIME....THEY...POST...ANYTHING? It is just a big of a swing and miss statement as the Rose one.

Its obvious the offseason leads to debate on WSI, everything does. But when the debates and discussion turn into a pissing match over who was wrong in the past, it gets pointless.
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  #125  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:08 AM
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I am not saying he didn't bring it on himself, or the extreme negativity doesn't sometimes warrant it, but good lord can this die? It is almost becoming straw man in the sense that instead of refuting a statement it just gets brought up that he was wrong about Derrick Rose and outside the personal vendetta is just kind of tired (not from you just in general).

I mean, we had poster's who called Gordon Beckham the next Derek Jeter, should that be brought up EVERY...SINGLE...TIME....THEY...POST...ANYTHING? It is just a big of a swing and miss statement as the Rose one.

Its obvious the offseason leads to debate on WSI, everything does. But when the debates and discussion turn into a pissing match over who was wrong in the past, it gets pointless.
It's a reminder of the perils of saying things as absolutes. So...no. I won't let it die. Saying it's an absolute the Tigers are the best team in baseball? The Tigers will win the division handily? I'm sorry, but I really have a hard time with people that do that. You want to state it as your opinion? Fine. But to state it as if it has already happened, and to do it with every single argument...nope. So if I find an example of how wrong that person is, especially when the person states in another thread he doesn't post opinions but cites experts, then...no. I will beat it to death.
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  #126  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:11 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by spawn View Post
It's a reminder of the perils of saying things as absolutes. So...no. I won't let it die. Saying it's an absolute the Tigers are the best team in baseball? The Tigers will win the division handily? I'm sorry, but I really have a hard time with people that do that. You want to state it as your opinion? Fine. But to state it as if it has already happened, and to do it with every single argument...nope. So if I find an example of how wrong that person is, I will beat it to death.
I get that, like I Said I don't think its totally unwarranted by any means, I mean if I think a poster is being negative than I would hate to see what everyone else thinks haha. Just is like, I get it, Rose is awesome, Munch was wrong. I just think, like I said, if people started refuting other posters with "Hey, is Beckham still the next Derek Jeter" people would immediately start to knock it as well.
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  #127  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:14 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by MUsoxfan View Post
So what would you have done to the roster to surpass the unbeatable Tigers?

Also, what about all the same experts that had Baltimore in last place this past season?
Oakland was predicted for last in a division with the best team in baseball, the Angels. Blandman fancies himself an expert, which is really hysterical when you examine his record.

The Tigers might win. They might be the best team in baseball, but how often does the pre-season consensus pick for best team in baseball actually win the WS?
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  #128  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:19 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I get that, like I Said I don't think its totally unwarranted by any means, I mean if I think a poster is being negative than I would hate to see what everyone else thinks haha. Just is like, I get it, Rose is awesome, Munch was wrong. I just think, like I said, if people started refuting other posters with "Hey, is Beckham still the next Derek Jeter" people would immediately start to knock it as well.
I think it would make more sense if I still believed Rose was a bust, but now it just seems lazy. My two cents. Know that doesn't mean much around here either.
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  #129  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:23 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
Oakland was predicted for last in a division with the best team in baseball, the Angels. Blandman fancies himself an expert, which is really hysterical when you examine his record.
The problem with using teams like Oakland, load with top prospects, and comparing them to us, is it ignores TALENT level. Oakland rose up because they had talented pitchers that were unproven but really high ace quality ceilings. They could have easily been first or last. You can't say that about our team this year.

I NEVER called myself an expert.
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  #130  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I get that, like I Said I don't think its totally unwarranted by any means, I mean if I think a poster is being negative than I would hate to see what everyone else thinks haha. Just is like, I get it, Rose is awesome, Munch was wrong. I just think, like I said, if people started refuting other posters with "Hey, is Beckham still the next Derek Jeter" people would immediately start to knock it as well.
Believe me, I respect your opinion here. And trust me, there are plenty of times when I think to myself "yeah, that's enough of that." But something is posted with dramatic effect, and I reminded as to why I continue to bring it up. To be honest, I don't even remember anyone saying that about Beckham. Not saying it didn't happen, but I don't remember it. However, with Rose, it wasn't just the one statement. It was multiple statements, from him being a bust to him not improving his outside shot because he was already a gym rat, and other statements. It's just tough taking anything said seriously because it is done with such dramatic effect and then to tell others you're not stating your opinion but those of other experts? *****.
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  #131  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:28 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Believe me, I respect your opinion here. And trust me, there are plenty of times when I think to myself "yeah, that's enough of that." But something is posted with dramatic effect, and I reminded as to why I continue to bring it up. To be honest, I don't even remember anyone saying that about Beckham. Not saying it didn't happen, but I don't remember it. However, with Rose, it wasn't just the one statement. It was multiple statements, from him being a bust to him not improving his outside shot because he was already a gym rat, and other statements. It's just tough taking anything said seriously because it is done with such dramatic effect and then to tell others you're not stating your opinion but those of other experts? *****.
Believe me Spawn, when I bring up evidence and people like you have no response but to dwell on irrelevant past because you can't think for yourself, I think in asterisks too.
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  #132  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:30 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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The problem with using teams like Oakland, load with top prospects, and comparing them to us, is it ignores TALENT level. Oakland rose up because they had talented pitchers that were unproven but really high ace quality ceilings. They could have easily been first or last. You can't say that about our team this year.

I NEVER called myself an expert.
No you haven't, you just imply it, and occassionally try to give people a scouting lesson. As for pitching, Sale, Peavy, Danks, Floyd if they pitch to their capabilities are as good as what Oakland can throw out there if not better, and the Sox bullpen has a ton of guys who can throw hard and be effective. So yes, I can say that about our team this year.
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  #133  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:31 AM
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The Tigers might win. They might be the best team in baseball, but how often does the pre-season consensus pick for best team in baseball actually win the WS?
There's the rub, and why I try never to make predictions, because more often than not, I'm wrong. In a 162 game season, anything can happen. As was pointed out...look at the A's, the Orioles, and most of the season the White Sox? If I remember correctly, weren't the Red Sox in some circles picked to win the WS? That's why it's ridiculous to state anything as an absolute before the first pitch is even thrown.
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  #134  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:34 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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No you haven't, you just imply it, and occassionally try to give people a scouting lesson. As for pitching, Sale, Peavy, Danks, Floyd if they pitch to their capabilities are as good as what Oakland can throw out there if not better, and the Sox bullpen has a ton of guys who can throw hard and be effective. So yes, I can say that about our team this year.
Ah I see. So when someone says something obviously wrong, I'm not suppose to link to articles because being right makes me look like an expert.

Got it.
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  #135  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:35 AM
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Believe me Spawn, when I bring up evidence and people like you have no response but to dwell on irrelevant past because you can't think for yourself, I think in asterisks too.
I have no problem thinking for myself. I'm just not stupid enough to state my opinions as facts and absolutes.
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