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  #31  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:58 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by ohiosoxfan View Post
My point wasn't to strictly make a comparison to our guy. I'm just pointing out that this guy is a decent player, but he's not guaranteed to make Cleveland a World Series champion. . . sure he could have helped us, but I don't think we have room for another $12 million player (unless we would move Floyd, Dunn, etc.) Plus, if we had signed him, we lose a first round pick (it could be debated whether that would really hurt us or not based on our draft history -but we did pick Sale in the first round)

I guess what fired me up was the comments assuming he's going to hit over .300 for Cleveland leading off when he has only done that once and just barely. He also strikes out a lot- his obp is similar to our inexpensive CF/leadoff man.
Well, he's really not $12 million this year, he's only $7 with money deferred. So we wouldn't really HAVE to move anyone, and then you can slot that money to replace Konerko's at the end of the year.

I mean, there's no point in discussing that now, because it's done. But it's certainly something that would have really helped this club at a reasonable value.
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  #32  
Old 02-12-2013, 01:37 PM
ohiosoxfan ohiosoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Well, he's really not $12 million this year, he's only $7 with money deferred. So we wouldn't really HAVE to move anyone, and then you can slot that money to replace Konerko's at the end of the year.

I mean, there's no point in discussing that now, because it's done. But it's certainly something that would have really helped this club at a reasonable value.
Agreed. . . though it would have come with the loss of a first round pick which I think the Sox feel is pretty valuable these days if they want to rebuild (or strengthen) the system.
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  #33  
Old 02-12-2013, 01:57 PM
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Nah. They replaced Choo with Swisher and Sizemore with Bourn. This just puts them in a better position to compete with the Sox.


They're going to score a lot of runs but their pitching is just brutal. Shades of the Late 90's and Early 00's Sox.
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  #34  
Old 02-12-2013, 02:44 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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I think the Indians are a sleeper AL Central team. I would not be surprised if they beat the White Sox for 2nd place..
I think both the White Sox and Royals have better pitching than the Tribe. Ubaldo Jimenez, Justin Masterson, Bauer, Brett Myers, and Zack McCallister is the Indians rotation. There really isn't a true #1 in that rotation or even a #2 for that matter. Ubaldo has regressed mightily since his Rockies days and is not really an ace anymore. I don't see their "big 3" hanging with Verlander/Scherzer/Sanchez or Sale/Peavy/Danks or even Shields/Santana/Guthrie.

Also, as a previous poster pointed out, Swisher and Bourn are going to replace the lost production from the recently departed Choo, Sizemore, and Hafner. Will the Tribe be improved in 2013? Probably. However, I still have them penciled in at fourth place.
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  #35  
Old 02-12-2013, 09:52 PM
PaleHoser PaleHoser is offline
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Speed guy with no power on the wrong side of 30 for 4/$48M? I'd pass.
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  #36  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:31 AM
ComiskeyBrewer ComiskeyBrewer is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
He could steal 30 bases a year for the duration of that contract and as long as he still hits over .300 he's worth it. $12 million is not a lot for a leadoff guy. There's so few good ones right now.
He'd also be worth it if he hit 30 HRs and had an OPS over .900, neither of which will happen though. As others have pointed out, he's on the wrong side of 30, he has never hit for over .300, has no power at all and his SB numbers dropped off precipitously last year. 12 Million isn't bad for a leadoff guy with power, but for one who is basically a singles hitter? It's not exactly a good contract.
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  #37  
Old 02-13-2013, 09:59 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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He'd also be worth it if he hit 30 HRs and had an OPS over .900, neither of which will happen though. As others have pointed out, he's on the wrong side of 30, he has never hit for over .300, has no power at all and his SB numbers dropped off precipitously last year. 12 Million isn't bad for a leadoff guy with power, but for one who is basically a singles hitter? It's not exactly a good contract.
He led the league in CS and basically had a crap SB%. I'd still take him, but he's really not all that great.
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  #38  
Old 02-13-2013, 11:09 AM
PorkChopExpress PorkChopExpress is offline
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Well, he's really not $12 million this year, he's only $7 with money deferred. So we wouldn't really HAVE to move anyone, and then you can slot that money to replace Konerko's at the end of the year.

I mean, there's no point in discussing that now, because it's done. But it's certainly something that would have really helped this club at a reasonable value.
And then two and three years from now his contract is an albatross that is preventing the Sox from spending on the top FA's at that time. I'd rather have Konerko's salary at the end of this year to use this offseason instead off already promising it to someone who, frankly, I just don't see as that much of an impact player, and particularly for the Sox. Don't forget, we play half our games at the Cell, and power is part of our game. Yes, a balanced lineup is crucial, but we are down to Dunn, Konerko and Viciedo as potential 30+ HR guys, with Konerko showing less pop these days, and you want to platoon Viciedo in order to play a speedy, low-power OF. I don't think Bourn would have been a good fit here, and especially not at the kind of money he got.
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  #39  
Old 02-13-2013, 11:31 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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And then two and three years from now his contract is an albatross that is preventing the Sox from spending on the top FA's at that time. I'd rather have Konerko's salary at the end of this year to use this offseason instead off already promising it to someone who, frankly, I just don't see as that much of an impact player, and particularly for the Sox. Don't forget, we play half our games at the Cell, and power is part of our game. Yes, a balanced lineup is crucial, but we are down to Dunn, Konerko and Viciedo as potential 30+ HR guys, with Konerko showing less pop these days, and you want to platoon Viciedo in order to play a speedy, low-power OF. I don't think Bourn would have been a good fit here, and especially not at the kind of money he got.
Fair. But I'm not sure this isn't our last chance to compete for a while. I'd rather have Bourn now.
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  #40  
Old 02-14-2013, 07:40 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
He could steal 30 bases a year for the duration of that contract and as long as he still hits over .300 he's worth it. $12 million is not a lot for a leadoff guy. There's so few good ones right now.
Well, we have a leadoff hitter who costs $2 mill a year, has and OPS just below Bourne and 1/3 fewer steals. That's a bargain.
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  #41  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:03 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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I think another consideration on the Indians is the addition of Terry Francona. Obviously he had some good years in Boston. But he was managing talented teams that he had to keep somewhat sane. Crazy personalities but very talented rosters. In Cleveland, he is going to have to manage games. With less talented lineups in Philly before he came to Boston, his teams struggled.
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  #42  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:32 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Well, we have a leadoff hitter who costs $2 mill a year, has and OPS just below Bourne and 1/3 fewer steals. That's a bargain.
They're not mutually exclusive! Having both guys would be a competitive edge. Something we don't have at any position, other than days Sale is pitching.
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  #43  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:51 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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They're not mutually exclusive! Having both guys would be a competitive edge. Something we don't have at any position, other than days Sale is pitching.
You can argue this point all you'd like but it seems that the Sox, who are already burdened by bad contracts, would rather not tie $50 into a slowing speedster whose on the wrong side of the 30 and would rather let their cheaper, 23-year-old LF continue to play everyday and see what kind of player he becomes.
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  #44  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:24 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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You can argue this point all you'd like but it seems that the Sox, who are already burdened by bad contracts, would rather not tie $50 into a slowing speedster whose on the wrong side of the 30 and would rather let their cheaper, 23-year-old LF continue to play everyday and see what kind of player he becomes.
Yeah, I get that. Just think they're wrong. For this year and beyond. But it is cheaper.
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  #45  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:05 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
They're not mutually exclusive! Having both guys would be a competitive edge. Something we don't have at any position, other than days Sale is pitching.
I would have been okay signing him. Viciedo would have still had plenty of playing time, being able to take a few OF starts a week and some DH. Plus it would have strengthened our bench, which, going into spring training, has nothing close to a major league bat.
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