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  #16  
Old 02-05-2013, 07:44 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
I walked away from that article wondering, what was the Lisle restaurant that Hawk and Tony met at.
I'm trying to figure out which golf course Hawk scheduled this meeting near so he could get a round in before deciding to fire LaRussa. My original theory was Seven Bridges, but I don't think it was built until the early 90's.
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  #17  
Old 02-05-2013, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Besides Conseco who do you think was using on the 88-89-90 A's teams?
Where do you want me to start? Dave Stewart, Bob Welch (27 wins, really), Dave Henderson, Tony Phillips, etc. Lots of flawed character guys on that team who had sudden jumps in production.
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  #18  
Old 02-05-2013, 10:24 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Where do you want me to start? Dave Stewart, Bob Welch (27 wins, really), Dave Henderson, Tony Phillips, etc. Lots of flawed character guys on that team who had sudden jumps in production.
I'm not discounting you, I've wondered myself so I asked the question. However I will go out on a limb and say that I don't think McGwire got into them, at least in a big way, until 96. I also think the PED use in baseball peaked in the decade after the 94 strike.

Edit: I think you need to cross Tony Phillips off that list.

Last edited by SI1020; 02-05-2013 at 10:34 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-05-2013, 10:40 PM
doogiec doogiec is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I'm trying to figure out which golf course Hawk scheduled this meeting near so he could get a round in before deciding to fire LaRussa. My original theory was Seven Bridges, but I don't think it was built until the early 90's.
I'm betting that he shot a round at the old Woodridge golf course (which was approximately where Seven Bridges is now) and then took the five minute drive up 53 to Del Debbios on Ogden to fire LaRussa. Del Debbios seems like it would have been a good place to fire a future Hall of Fame manager. Pretty good food, reasonable prices, and kind of dark and quiet inside.
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  #20  
Old 02-05-2013, 10:44 PM
doogiec doogiec is offline
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Originally Posted by Irishsox1 View Post
When I think of Tony LaRussa, I think of a great manager and steroids. Why managers don't get tainted the way Mark McGuire has, I don't know why.
Of everyone involved in baseball, managers really had the least to do with the issue of steroids.

What were they supposed to do? They couldn't test the players on their own. They don't necessarily have much say in what players are on the roster. They can't realistically bench or release a player based on suspicion. And if they call out the player in public based on suspicion alone, they would completely lose the team.

Every manager probably had roiders, and not one of them could do anything about it.
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  #21  
Old 02-05-2013, 11:01 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
I'm not discounting you, I've wondered myself so I asked the question. However I will go out on a limb and say that I don't think McGwire got into them, at least in a big way, until 96. I also think the PED use in baseball peaked in the decade after the 94 strike.
I don't know that I believe that. I think he actually started using before the 1992 season. If you look at his 1991 numbers, he was in danger of falling below the .200-mark, and barely managed twenty home runs. LaRussa actually sat him- at his request- in order to avoid the embarrassment of a sub-.200 season.

His 1992 numbers were remarkably better, as he fell one home run short of the league-lead (Juan Gonzalez), in spite of missing almost two months after straining a muscle in his rib-cage in a game at Camden Yards. I actually remember the game. He took an awkward swing, stopped, and immediately walked from the batters' box into the A's clubhouse. Lance Blankenship replaced him and finished the at-bat.

Edit: He didn't miss two months, as the injury happened Friday, August 21, 1992, but I was right about Blankenship replacing him. Here's the box-score from the game in question.
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  #22  
Old 02-05-2013, 11:07 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Hawk's actual accomplishments in baseball come nowhere near his self-promoted perceived accomplishments.
And even those don't compare to the accomplishments of guess who?

YAZ!
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  #23  
Old 02-06-2013, 12:45 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Another one of the biggest "what if's" in Sox history.

Courtesy of my interview with Jack McDowell:

ML: I’m not trying to place blame here but the Sox as good as they were, always seemed to be one piece short. Whether it was another starter or another big bat to go with Thomas and Ventura. Do you think the organization did everything they could to get to a World Series?

JM: "That’s tough to say. I know that Mark McGwire wanted to come here. He called me three times in about a ten day period after the 1991 season. He asked me about the other guys in the clubhouse, about the coaching staff and about the city of Chicago. I honestly felt we were going to get him. I called Robin (Ventura) to let him know what was going on and I remember he was excited. He told me ‘alright...we’re going to kick ass.’ The Sox then asked Frank (Thomas) if he’d go to DH full time so that Mark could play first and he said no.".

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  #24  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:46 AM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by doogiec View Post

Every manager probably had roiders, and not one of them could do anything about it.
Yes, but Larussa had roiders who followed him around. He retired with one of the biggest roiders of all time as his hitting coach for christ sake.
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  #25  
Old 02-06-2013, 12:24 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Another one of the biggest "what if's" in Sox history.

Courtesy of my interview with Jack McDowell:

ML: I’m not trying to place blame here but the Sox as good as they were, always seemed to be one piece short. Whether it was another starter or another big bat to go with Thomas and Ventura. Do you think the organization did everything they could to get to a World Series?

JM: "That’s tough to say. I know that Mark McGwire wanted to come here. He called me three times in about a ten day period after the 1991 season. He asked me about the other guys in the clubhouse, about the coaching staff and about the city of Chicago. I honestly felt we were going to get him. I called Robin (Ventura) to let him know what was going on and I remember he was excited. He told me ‘alright...we’re going to kick ass.’ The Sox then asked Frank (Thomas) if he’d go to DH full time so that Mark could play first and he said no.".

Lip
I'm glad that didn't happen. I don't think McGwire would have put the Sox over the top. He didn't hit for average: he didn't draw walks. And given Frank's difficulties while being used as a DH, it's possible McGwire's presence would have prevented Thomas from becoming the player that we remember.
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  #26  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:29 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by RKMeibalane View Post
And even those don't compare to the accomplishments of guess who?

YAZ!
what about Ted Williams?
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  #27  
Old 02-12-2013, 01:29 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
what about Ted Williams?
I never saw Ted Williams play, but he did have a lifetime 1.116 OPS over 19 seasons despite missing 3 prime years being a war hero. Putting that into a little perspective, Frank Thomas as great as he was, only put up an OPS that high one season. So if Hawk wants to share a little wisdom from him, I think it is worthwhile to hear.
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  #28  
Old 02-12-2013, 03:00 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
I never saw Ted Williams play, but he did have a lifetime 1.116 OPS over 19 seasons despite missing 3 prime years being a war hero. Putting that into a little perspective, Frank Thomas as great as he was, only put up an OPS that high one season. So if Hawk wants to share a little wisdom from him, I think it is worthwhile to hear.
Yeah, I know he was one of the elite players ever. I just said that because half of Hawks stories start with how he was taking to Ted Williams. Yaz was about 40 when I saw him play, but he played a heck of a long time and did win the triple crown .
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