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  #76  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:41 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Futhermore, lack of prospects hurts the ability to acquire MLB talent. For a baseball GM, Players are essentially a Zero-Sum Game. When you have nothing of value, you can rarely pick up anything of value. It is one thing to use the farm to trade for proven talent. Its another to ignore it completely.

This is why it always astounds me when people get all bent out of shape when the Sox trade "valuable" prospects to get established talent. The odds of trading away a superstar are pretty slim...in my opinion the worst deal KW did was the one for Swisher. We lost Gio. Other than that....haven't lost much major league talent in trades. For us to get some of the quality players we have gotten with guys who have amounted to nothing is a reflection of good maneuvering by KW. Peavy for three mediocre pitchers? Genius.
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  #77  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:39 PM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
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Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
This is why it always astounds me when people get all bent out of shape when the Sox trade "valuable" prospects to get established talent. The odds of trading away a superstar are pretty slim...in my opinion the worst deal KW did was the one for Swisher. We lost Gio. Other than that....haven't lost much major league talent in trades. For us to get some of the quality players we have gotten with guys who have amounted to nothing is a reflection of good maneuvering by KW. Peavy for three mediocre pitchers? Genius.
Clayton Richard pitched pretty well in his 2 seasons prior to the last. It was in SD though.

Chris Young and Daniel Hudson are both good players that came from KW trades.
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  #78  
Old 02-04-2013, 03:19 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Keith Law's ratings are up. He's got us 28 as well, though the Tigers are not on the bottom (he's got them 25).
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  #79  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:28 PM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxNation05 View Post
Clayton Richard pitched pretty well in his 2 seasons prior to the last. It was in SD though.

Chris Young and Daniel Hudson are both good players that came from KW trades.
Clayton Richard would not make the current Sox rotation. Chris Young is decent (he's not much of a hitter), and the jury is still very much out on Hudson.
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  #80  
Old 02-04-2013, 07:42 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Pretty much. Rowand was drafted in the 1998, since then here's the entire list of position players the Sox have drafted, signed, and have gotten to the Majors. I'm excluding guys who were drafted but didn't sign and were drafted again later by other teams. This is THE ENTIRE LIST for the last 15 years in order of career WAR to this point. Players bolded are the ones who reached the Majors still with the Sox... May want to send women and small children into another room, boy, is this going to be ugly...
  1. Chris Young - 2001 - 13.4 WAR
  2. Mike Morse - 2000 - 5.1 WAR
  3. Ryan Sweeney - 2003 - 5.0 WAR
  4. Gordon Beckham - 2008 - 3.5 WAR
  5. Chris Stewart - 2001 - 1.7 WAR
  6. Jeremy Reed - 2002 - 1.1 WAR
  7. Chris Getz - 2005 - 0.8 WAR
  8. Brent Morel - 2008 - 0.5 WAR
  9. Donny Lucy - 2004 - 0.1 WAR
  10. Jordan Danks - 2008 - (0.2) WAR
  11. Brian Anderson - 2003 - (0.6) WAR
  12. Chris Carter - 2005 - (0.6) WAR
  13. Brandon Allen - 2004 - (1.2) WAR
  14. Josh Fields - 2004 - (1.4) WAR
  15. Andy Gonzalez - 2001 - (1.9) WAR
That is a really pathetic list. 15 major leaguers in 15 years, zero stars and only a couple of productive players.
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  #81  
Old 02-04-2013, 10:37 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Coopa:

That's what happens when you draft based on "signability" and also to avoid dealing with agents you don't like.

Lip
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  #82  
Old 02-05-2013, 07:43 AM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
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Originally Posted by sullythered View Post
Clayton Richard would not make the current Sox rotation. Chris Young is decent (he's not much of a hitter), and the jury is still very much out on Hudson.
That's your opinion.
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  #83  
Old 02-05-2013, 09:25 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxNation05 View Post
That's your opinion.
And probably the same opinion of most scouts...
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  #84  
Old 02-05-2013, 09:27 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Keith Law's ratings are up. He's got us 28 as well, though the Tigers are not on the bottom (he's got them 25).
And now for my yearly rant...

"Keith Law sucks, his prospect ratings are good for toilet paper and not much else."

That is all.
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  #85  
Old 02-05-2013, 12:29 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
And now for my yearly rant...

"Keith Law sucks, his prospect ratings are good for toilet paper and not much else."

That is all.
I'm not really pro or against Law. He's got a different perspective on things. He doesn't rate at all based on how advanced guys are, caring more about ceiling and likelihood of projections versus what's closer to usable.

I know a lot of White Sox fans despise him, but its not like everything horrible he's said about our system and prospects isn't 100% true...

FWIW, he's got Hawkins at 74 on his top 100 list.
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  #86  
Old 02-05-2013, 01:06 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I also do not have a big problem with Law. Law is not ever on the Sox side, but he also has not been very wrong about Sox prospects. Big Ceiling, future star like players have not come up through the Sox Farm (sans Chris Sale who got about 2 cups of Coffee and a Donut in the minors). Bland is right that Law ranks based on the likelihood of being great, not being useful. That is why guys like Santiago, Quintana etc. don't really count in these rankings. A lot of teams get back end rotation, fill in lineup, bullpen contributions from these fringe types.

Law ranked Hawkins 74 in his Top 100, which was good, and Carlos Sanchez got some praise in his "10 that just missed". He writes with Sanchez that he doesn't see the defensive tools to be an everyday SS. He thinks he will hit .300, but lack the power/offensive ability to be a great 2b. Kind of sounds like he projects him to be a .300 hitter but with a low .700 OPS. Kind of a 8-9 hitter.
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  #87  
Old 02-05-2013, 01:46 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Pretty much. Rowand was drafted in the 1998, since then here's the entire list of position players the Sox have drafted, signed, and have gotten to the Majors. I'm excluding guys who were drafted but didn't sign and were drafted again later by other teams. This is THE ENTIRE LIST for the last 15 years in order of career WAR to this point. Players bolded are the ones who reached the Majors still with the Sox... May want to send women and small children into another room, boy, is this going to be ugly...
  1. Chris Young - 2001 - 13.4 WAR
  2. Mike Morse - 2000 - 5.1 WAR
  3. Ryan Sweeney - 2003 - 5.0 WAR
  4. Gordon Beckham - 2008 - 3.5 WAR
  5. Chris Stewart - 2001 - 1.7 WAR
  6. Jeremy Reed - 2002 - 1.1 WAR
  7. Chris Getz - 2005 - 0.8 WAR
  8. Brent Morel - 2008 - 0.5 WAR
  9. Donny Lucy - 2004 - 0.1 WAR
  10. Jordan Danks - 2008 - (0.2) WAR
  11. Brian Anderson - 2003 - (0.6) WAR
  12. Chris Carter - 2005 - (0.6) WAR
  13. Brandon Allen - 2004 - (1.2) WAR
  14. Josh Fields - 2004 - (1.4) WAR
  15. Andy Gonzalez - 2001 - (1.9) WAR
Ouch.

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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Waiting for someone to convince me that those failures haven't hurt the franchise.
No kidding. I'm actually surprised no one has made that argument yet.
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  #88  
Old 02-05-2013, 05:20 PM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
And probably the same opinion of most scouts...
If the Sox had Clayton Richard (in his current form and considering his last three years) he would be in the starting rotating over Quintana and Santiagio. Or Floyd would have been traded. Either way, he has a much better track record than Quintana and Santiago has started what, a handful of games... if that?
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  #89  
Old 02-05-2013, 05:47 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxNation05 View Post
If the Sox had Clayton Richard (in his current form and considering his last three years) he would be in the starting rotating over Quintana and Santiagio. Or Floyd would have been traded. Either way, he has a much better track record than Quintana and Santiago has started what, a handful of games... if that?
PEAVY wouldn't be on the sox if we had Clayton. What exactly are you arguing? That Clayton is better than Peavy? That's a tough sell.
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  #90  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:20 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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SoxNation05:

When Clayton was with the Sox his ERA was around five and he usually couldn't make it out of the 6th inning.

Maybe he would have gotten better, but I don't think so.

He was 'mediocrity defined' with the Sox, pitching against stacked A.L. batting orders. let's not forget that either.

Lip
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