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  #106  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:44 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by sullythered View Post
I have never seen an argument so thoroughly obliterated as the one munch was making on Viciedo. Nice job to all.
While they've shown he was a little better than I made him out to be, not one person has shown anything that suggests he will defy what's in his scouting reports.
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  #107  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:46 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxNation05 View Post
Please quote back to when anyone said Beckham is gonig to bust out? As someone previouly noted, you are making arguements with people who do not exist.
At least make sure you don't lie about things you've posted in the same thread.

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Originally Posted by SoxNation05 View Post

Beckham is someone I hold irrational hope for because I think one day he is going to get his swing back together. All indications show he is a hardworker and maybe a 2nd year with Manto can work out some of the fundamental kinks.
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  #108  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:52 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
At least make sure you don't lie about things you've posted in the same thread.
You are a guy who defended himself saying you said next to no shot vs. no shot, and saying there was a huge difference. Now someone else says they have irrational hope and you say that's the same as saying he will bust out.

I think you spend too much time with your President of the Michael Beasley fan club duties.
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  #109  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:55 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
You are a guy who defended himself saying you said next to no shot vs. no shot, and saying there was a huge difference. Now someone else says they have irrational hope and you say that's the same as saying he will bust out.

I think you spend too much time with your President of the Michael Beasley fan club duties.
Your train of logic doesn't make sense.

Yes, it is NEARLY impossible for us to win the division. Yes, we can do it. But it's not likely. It's not really all that plausible. We need two more impact bats in the lineup, and then some stuff to go right.

People keep acting like the Tigers don't have 6 impact bats in their lineup, 2 being two of the best in all of baseball, and a much better pitching staff.

Irrational hope Beckham gets his swing back is the same as saying he'll bust out, yeah. I'm pretty sure we all know he's talking about his rookie year. Expecting that again, more than a thousand at bats into his career is a little homerish at this point.
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  #110  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:57 AM
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Irrational hope Beckham gets his swing back is the same as saying he'll bust out, yeah. I'm pretty sure we all know he's talking about his rookie year. Expecting that again, more than a thousand at bats into his career is a little homerish at this point.
Give it a rest for ****'s sake, you've painted yourself in another corner. A guy saying he has "irrational hope" for a player does not in any logical or sane way indicate he thinks that player is going to "bust out."
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  #111  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:59 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Give it a rest for ****'s sake, you've painted yourself in another corner. A guy saying he has "irrational hope" for a player does not in any logical or sane way indicate he thinks that player is going to "bust out."
It does when you read the rest of the statement. People have taken tremendous liberty with the things I've said, I'm only pointing to what the guy meant. He meant Beckham would return to form. Is he referring to the ****ty years since year one when he produced star level? Come the **** on.
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  #112  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:04 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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It does when you read the rest of the statement. People have taken tremendous liberty with the things I've said, I'm only pointing to what the guy meant. He meant Beckham would return to form. Is he referring to the ****ty years since year one when he produced star level? Come the **** on.
What you have posted has been obnoxious. You should buy a Tigers hat and be done with it, although if you did, you would find fault with everything Tigers and suddenly White Sox players would become better.
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  #113  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
It does when you read the rest of the statement. People have taken tremendous liberty with the things I've said, I'm only pointing to what the guy meant. He meant Beckham would return to form. Is he referring to the ****ty years since year one when he produced star level? Come the **** on.
Nobody has taken anything out of the tremendously over the top, depressingly annoying tone you meant to convey them in, so cut the self martyrdom ****. And when a guy prefaces his statement saying it's with "irrational" hope, that means he realizes it's without any logical merit. Beckham turning his career around would be certainly surprising, but stranger things have happened in baseball.
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  #114  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:23 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
What you have posted has been obnoxious. You should buy a Tigers hat and be done with it, although if you did, you would find fault with everything Tigers and suddenly White Sox players would become better.
The attitude that anything negative is obnoxious is in itself obnoxious. Haven't we gone passed the point where regarding another team in our division as clearly better doesn't mean we're becoming fans of that team? Especially when every other fanbase on the planet would acknowledge it?

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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Nobody has taken anything out of the tremendously over the top, depressing tone you meant to convey them in, so cut the self martyrdom ****. And when a guy prefaces his statement saying it's with "irrational" hope, that means he realizes it's without any logical merit. Beckham turning his career around would be certainly surprising, but stranger things have happened in baseball.
All of that is off topic. He claimed I put words in his mouth. I was pointing back to where he actually made the statement.

Saying we have little to no chance of competing for the division is not over the top. Sorry. But that's not just my opinion, that's the majority opinion in baseball. We are bad. The Tigers are good, probably the best in baseball. There's a huge gap. We need to address the roster talent, or we aren't going anywhere. These are not over the top statements. They are the truth of the situation.
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  #115  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:30 AM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by DonnieDarko View Post
Just thought that I would add this on Beckham: I think he'll improve because he showed improvement last year. Sure, the numbers do not show that, but that's because he had an atrocious April and a bad July...but it seems that after that he seemed to figure SOMETHING out, and by the last month of the season (albeit, after some of the pressure of getting into the playoffs was gone) he seemed to grow confidence. I KNOW that he changed his stance by holding his hands a bit higher, and ever since he started doing that he's shown improvement.
Beckham did find his power stroke last year at least. 16HRs from the 2B spot is definitely "bonus power". According to Yahoo Sports, the league average for HRs out of the 2B spot is only 6. There aren't many Robinson Canos out there who can hit 30+ from that spot on the diamond. The big problem is that he is about 25 points below the league batting average from that position.

I'm also glad that he went back to his crouched stance though. Albeit, a modified version of the one he used in Georgia and in 2009. The stance he used in 2011 where he was vertical with his hands in front of his face drove me nuts. I think we would all like to see him go back to hitting the ball with authority to right center field like he did in his rookie year though. We only get flashes of that Beckham in recent years. Still, even if Gordon doesn't improve and just duplicates his 2012 season next year, getting 16HRs and 60RBIs from the 9 spot in the order isn't horrific production. The + defense he provides also helps his cause.
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  #116  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:34 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Foulke You View Post
Beckham did find his power stroke last year at least. 16HRs from the 2B spot is definitely "bonus power". According to Yahoo Sports, the league average for HRs out of the 2B spot is only 6. There aren't many Robinson Canos out there who can hit 30+ from that spot on the diamond. The big problem is that he is about 25 points below the league batting average from that position.

I'm also glad that he went back to his crouched stance though. Albeit, a modified version of the one he used in Georgia and in 2009. The stance he used in 2011 where he was vertical with his hands in front of his face drove me nuts. I think we would all like to see him go back to hitting the ball with authority to right center field like he did in his rookie year though. We only get flashes of that Beckham in recent years. Still, even if Gordon doesn't improve and just duplicates his 2012 season next year, getting 16HRs and 60RBIs from the 9 spot in the order isn't horrific production. The + defense he provides also helps his cause.
I don't disagree that Beckham can't be a useful piece. The problem is he's always going to be below league average offensively (because of his BA and OBP). His defense and power make him useful for a lot of teams, but not a team with other holes in the lineup.
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  #117  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I don't disagree that Beckham can't be a useful piece. The problem is he's always going to be below league average offensively (because of his BA and OBP). His defense and power make him useful for a lot of teams, but not a team with other holes in the lineup.
But the thing is Beckham's not THAT far off the offensive average for the position he plays. The league average AL 2B in 2012 hit .250/.311/.374. Beckham hit .234/.296/.371 while also posting a .251 BABip, over 30 points lower than his pre-2012 career average. Given the relative lack of offensive production from his position, it's not at all "pie-in-the-sky" to think he's capable of at least being an offensively average player at his position.
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  #118  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:07 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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But the thing is Beckham's not THAT far off the offensive average for the position he plays. The league average AL 2B in 2012 hit .250/.311/.374. Beckham hit .234/.296/.371 while also posting a .251 BABip, over 30 points lower than his pre-2012 career average. Given the relative lack of offensive production from his position, it's not at all "pie-in-the-sky" to think he's capable of at least being an offensively average player at his position.
Fair. I don't have a problem with that, I have a problem wrapping my head around how he's going to hit at star level again five years later.

I actually like Beckham. I just don't think he's a good fit on a team with offensive concerns at almost every other position...
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  #119  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:31 AM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
At least make sure you don't lie about things you've posted in the same thread.
Far from the same thing, I quoted others on the board who swiftly defended me. That arguement was over anyways. You are going back in the thread and trying to find something to stick to someone and you are just making yourself look weak. I like Beckham, as you supposedly do too, I think he plays the game the right way, he has a good attitude, he cares, he can pick it but he just cannot get his mechanics together. IMO, if he bumps his AVG up 20-30 points and stops disapearing in the 7-8-9 innings he could be a valuable player. Considering his BABIP is .250, his AVG going up is not far fetched at all.
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Give it a rest for ****'s sake, you've painted yourself in another corner. A guy saying he has "irrational hope" for a player does not in any logical or sane way indicate he thinks that player is going to "bust out."
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
You are a guy who defended himself saying you said next to no shot vs. no shot, and saying there was a huge difference. Now someone else says they have irrational hope and you say that's the same as saying he will bust out.

I think you spend too much time with your President of the Michael Beasley fan club duties.
Thank you.
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  #120  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:34 AM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
But the thing is Beckham's not THAT far off the offensive average for the position he plays. The league average AL 2B in 2012 hit .250/.311/.374. Beckham hit .234/.296/.371 while also posting a .251 BABip, over 30 points lower than his pre-2012 career average. Given the relative lack of offensive production from his position, it's not at all "pie-in-the-sky" to think he's capable of at least being an offensively average player at his position.
I would even go as far as saying its not that "pie-in-the-sky" that he will be above average at his position.
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