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  #61  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:20 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
So do you want to discredit Griffey, Bonds, Ted Williams, Ichiro, Mattingly, Fisk, Gwynn and any other number of hall of famers who never won any? It's remarkably hard to win just one title, let alone several. To lay the blame at the feet of an individual for a lack of team success (which the Braves didn't even have) is flawed. He won the series once, pitched in the series five times, and pitched in the NLCS nine times, with fantastic postseason numbers. There's only so much you can lay at a guy's feet before you're just reaching.
I was more indicting the others than Smoltz . He did his part, although I am still not convinced he's a solid HOfer, though it is apparent I'm in the minority there and he will get elected from what I've read. I'm just thinking they may not have been all that great as a staff like people seem to believe if they only have one ring to show for it. Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum are already more successful in that department . I believe pitching talks and you know what walks in the postseason. They had 3 guys who were very very good to great , should have won it more than once. That 10 reasons why (the Braves won one stinkin series)thing on the Braves on ESPN was nonsense blaming everyone but the big 3, who besides Smoltz sucked. Yes of course a great player can not win it no matter how great he is if the rest the team isn't good enough. But the Braves, with 3 #1 starters, have no such excuse , they had a lot of good players around them. Bonds is a bad example to bring up because his complete failure to hit anything in the playoffs with the Pirates was a HUGE reason they didn't make it to the World Series even though they had the best team in the NL for a few year period.. It wasn't till he got to SF he had that one monster-roided postseason.

Last edited by mahagga73; 01-22-2013 at 04:32 PM.
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  #62  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:34 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
I was more indicting the others than Smoltz . He did his part, although I am still not convinced he's a solid HOfer, though it is apparent I'm in the minority there and he will get elected from what I've read. I'm just thinking they may not have been all that great as a staff like people seem to believe if they only have one ring to show for it. Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum are already more successful in that department . I believe pitching talks and you know what walks in the postseason. They had 3 guys who were very very good to great , should have won it more than once. That 10 reasons why (the Braves won one stinkin series)thing on the Braves on ESPN was nonsense blaming everyone but the big 3, who besides Smoltz sucked. Yes of course a great player can not win it no matter how great he is if the rest the team isn't good enough. But the Braves, with 3 #1 starters, have no such excuse , they had a lot of good players around them.
I think that speaks more to the volatility of the baseball playoffs than anything else. It'd be one thing if the people talked up the Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz Braves as one of the greatest rotations ever and then they consistently finished 2nd in the division and out of the playoffs, but they had a 14-season run as division champs. That's unprecedented and, frankly, probably more indicative of actual talent. Real teams win out over 162 games, anyone can win a short series.

Oh, and Tim Lincecum sucked this year and was basically out of the Giants rotation by the time the playoffs came around. He started 1 game for San Francisco this postseason and was promptly shelled.
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  #63  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:37 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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I think that speaks more to the volatility of the baseball playoffs than anything else. It'd be one thing if the people talked up the Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz Braves as one of the greatest rotations ever and then they consistently finished 2nd in the division and out of the playoffs, but they had a 14-season run as division champs. That's unprecedented and, frankly, probably more indicative of actual talent. Real teams win out over 162 games, anyone can win a short series.

Oh, and Tim Lincecum sucked this year and was basically out of the Giants rotation by the time the playoffs came around. He started 1 game for San Francisco this postseason and was promptly shelled.
Is he done, mental now or what, Lincecum. People are saying he might do a Smoltz and go into the pen as a closer or something. I see your point, but outside of hockey there are no prizes for being the best team that fails to win the title . Rarely does the Presidents Trophy winner win the actual Stanley Cup. Lincecum pitched well out of the pen in the playoffs so he earned his ring I think.
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  #64  
Old 01-22-2013, 05:53 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
Is he done, mental now or what, Lincecum. People are saying he might do a Smoltz and go into the pen as a closer or something. I see your point, but outside of hockey there are no prizes for being the best team that fails to win the title . Rarely does the Presidents Trophy winner win the actual Stanley Cup. Lincecum pitched well out of the pen in the playoffs so he earned his ring I think.
I think he earned his ring too, I would find it hard to believe he would be the Giants closer ever though. Although you never know how Brian Wilson will come back and Sergio Casilla is probably better suited for a setup role even though he did a good job last year as a closer.
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  #65  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:05 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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I think he earned his ring too, I would find it hard to believe he would be the Giants closer ever though. Although you never know how Brian Wilson will come back and Sergio Casilla is probably better suited for a setup role even though he did a good job last year as a closer.
Wilson is a free agent and likely won't return to San Francisco.

http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci...ly-wont-return
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  #66  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:27 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Wilson is a free agent and likely won't return to San Francisco.

http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci...ly-wont-return
I didn't know that, I suppose Lincecum has a decent chance at closing. I don't think I would want him as a closer but I really have no clue on his health either.
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  #67  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:52 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
I think he earned his ring too, I would find it hard to believe he would be the Giants closer ever though. Although you never know how Brian Wilson will come back and Sergio Casilla is probably better suited for a setup role even though he did a good job last year as a closer.
Wilson is pretty much out from what I've read, they don't feel like they need him or want to pay what he's going to want maybe. Or Maybe Wilson wants a bigger contract. Somebody already beat me too it. ^^
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  #68  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:56 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
I didn't know that, I suppose Lincecum has a decent chance at closing. I don't think I would want him as a closer but I really have no clue on his health either.
Lot's of concern that motion is going to make it a short career. That's the most likely reason he may get moved to closer, keep his career going longer. That windup and release is violent and looks like it is extremely stressful on the arm.
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