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  #46  
Old 01-21-2013, 08:13 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
I think alot of people would agree with this. I was gonna say it but I didn't wanna get my head ripped off. I can see the arguments for both sides though.
Glavine has a much better won loss and about the same ERA . What was it that made you think that? This is a discussion, just curious.
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  #47  
Old 01-21-2013, 08:22 PM
tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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I think he gets in as well. Other than burning himself because he ironed his shirt while wearing it, Smoltz has done a lot of good things on and off the field.
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  #48  
Old 01-21-2013, 08:51 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
Glavine has a much better won loss and about the same ERA . What was it that made you think that? This is a discussion, just curious.
The career stats are deff in Glavines favor but in the playoffs Glavine was pretty medicore while Smoltz has a argument as being the best post season pitcher of all time. I think Smoltz was 15-4 in the playoffs and Glavine was like 11-14. Smoltz had a higher era+ and he usually went up against other teams aces while Glavine faced other teams third or fourth starters. In a big game I'm taking Smoltz. I guess looking at it carerwise i'm taking Glavine.
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  #49  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:17 AM
pythons007 pythons007 is offline
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I'm still not understanding the comparison to Smoltz and Eckersley. Eckersley as a starter (13 seasons) had one 20 game win season and one additional of 15 or more. Smoltz had one 24 game win season five 15 or more (14 seasons). He was 58 games over .500

If you cherry pick Eck's best years as a closer 51 48 45 for 144 saves. Smoltz as a closer for the 3 consecutive years had 55 45 44 for 144 saves. Someone already stated that in 3 consecutive years only 2 other closers have done this. To call him a good closer is insane. He was THE best closer when he was closing.

Smoltz made the All-Star team 8 times 1 CY Young as a starter
Eckersley made the All-Star team 6 times 1 CY Young/MVP both as a reliever. I can't express how much it pisses me off that a RP wins a MVP let alone a CY Young.
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  #50  
Old 01-22-2013, 11:19 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
I think alot of people would agree with this. I was gonna say it but I didn't wanna get my head ripped off. I can see the arguments for both sides though.
Well, I get mine ripped off all the time...you become immune.
Numbers don't show the 6 inches outside of the plate that Glavine consistently got from the umps.
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  #51  
Old 01-22-2013, 11:51 AM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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I think he will eventually make it, but it wouldn't surprise me if he waits a ballot or two. Over 90% is a overly optimistic in my opinion as only 6 other pitchers have ever made it with that level of support.
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  #52  
Old 01-22-2013, 12:08 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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I think he will eventually make it, but it wouldn't surprise me if he waits a ballot or two. Over 90% is a overly optimistic in my opinion as only 6 other pitchers have ever made it with that level of support.
Maybe you're right, but I think Smoltz is a lock for the 1st ballot. If the best you can do to argue against him is bring up numbers you've obviously not been paying attention to how backward thinking the BBWAA when it comes to stats.
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  #53  
Old 01-22-2013, 12:29 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Maybe you're right, but I think Smoltz is a lock for the 1st ballot. If the best you can do to argue against him is bring up numbers you've obviously not been paying attention to how backward thinking the BBWAA when it comes to stats.
I think the numbers aren't as important as the fact that he was one of the faces of the most dominant rotation of the generation, and one of the greatest all-time.
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  #54  
Old 01-22-2013, 12:32 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
I think the numbers aren't as important as the fact that he was one of the faces of the most dominant rotation of the generation, and one of the greatest all-time.
that won 1 stinkin world Series . They sucked, except for Smoltz, when it counted. Even ESPN made a show with a litany of excuses for the Braves. Blamed the relievers for it .They had Jeff Reardon, who was a pretty good pitcher , and ESPN blamed him. Wohlers was pretty good also. You got 3 starters like that and win 1 series, that's a damn shame.

Last edited by mahagga73; 01-22-2013 at 12:52 PM.
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  #55  
Old 01-22-2013, 12:34 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Well, I get mine ripped off all the time...you become immune.
Numbers don't show the 6 inches outside of the plate that Glavine consistently got from the umps.
Maddux too.
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  #56  
Old 01-22-2013, 12:36 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by pythons007 View Post
I'm still not understanding the comparison to Smoltz and Eckersley. Eckersley as a starter (13 seasons) had one 20 game win season and one additional of 15 or more. Smoltz had one 24 game win season five 15 or more (14 seasons). He was 58 games over .500

If you cherry pick Eck's best years as a closer 51 48 45 for 144 saves. Smoltz as a closer for the 3 consecutive years had 55 45 44 for 144 saves. Someone already stated that in 3 consecutive years only 2 other closers have done this. To call him a good closer is insane. He was THE best closer when he was closing.

Smoltz made the All-Star team 8 times 1 CY Young as a starter
Eckersley made the All-Star team 6 times 1 CY Young/MVP both as a reliever. I can't express how much it pisses me off that a RP wins a MVP let alone a CY Young.
Eck had an ERA under 1 though, he was the GOAT in my opinion for a few years there, even including Mariano, who is the best overall careerwise.
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  #57  
Old 01-22-2013, 12:39 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
The career stats are deff in Glavines favor but in the playoffs Glavine was pretty medicore while Smoltz has a argument as being the best post season pitcher of all time. I think Smoltz was 15-4 in the playoffs and Glavine was like 11-14. Smoltz had a higher era+ and he usually went up against other teams aces while Glavine faced other teams third or fourth starters. In a big game I'm taking Smoltz. I guess looking at it carerwise i'm taking Glavine.
Smoltz went against the other teams 1 in the playoffs ? Is that how they set up their rotation in the playoffs? I'm just asking because I don't remember that far back . That's pretty amazing there could be such a disparity between the regular season performances and the postseason performances of the 3 pitchers.

Last edited by mahagga73; 01-22-2013 at 12:52 PM.
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  #58  
Old 01-22-2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
that won 1 stinkin world Series . They sucked, except for Smoltz, when it counted. Even ESPN made a show with a litany of excuses for the Braves. Blamed the relievers for it .They had Jeff Reardon, who was a pretty good pitcher , and ESPN blamed him. You got 3 starters like that and win 1 series, that's a damn shame.
I think personally you're overrating the 1 World Series win and underrating the 14-year run atop the NL East.
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  #59  
Old 01-22-2013, 02:17 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
that won 1 stinkin world Series . They sucked, except for Smoltz, when it counted. Even ESPN made a show with a litany of excuses for the Braves. Blamed the relievers for it .They had Jeff Reardon, who was a pretty good pitcher , and ESPN blamed him. Wohlers was pretty good also. You got 3 starters like that and win 1 series, that's a damn shame.
So do you want to discredit Griffey, Bonds, Ted Williams, Ichiro, Mattingly, Fisk, Gwynn and any other number of hall of famers who never won any? It's remarkably hard to win just one title, let alone several. To lay the blame at the feet of an individual for a lack of team success (which the Braves didn't even have) is flawed. He won the series once, pitched in the series five times, and pitched in the NLCS nine times, with fantastic postseason numbers. There's only so much you can lay at a guy's feet before you're just reaching.
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  #60  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:18 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
Smoltz went against the other teams 1 in the playoffs ? Is that how they set up their rotation in the playoffs? I'm just asking because I don't remember that far back . That's pretty amazing there could be such a disparity between the regular season performances and the postseason performances of the 3 pitchers.
I meant during the regular season, Bobby Cox usually pitched Maddux and Smoltz in the big games and Glavine usually went up against other teams 3rd or 4th starter. Not that it mattered to much because he still had to face the same hitters Maddux and Smoltz did but facing a number 4 starter makes it a little easier to win when your not facing the other teams ace. There were times where Glavine pitched against other teams aces but not like Maddux and Smoltz.
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