Originally Posted by SI1020
Not excusing, I hate excuses in my own life and in the cosmic sense. Just comparing. If people want to believe the "red juice" made Willie Mays a great player, let them. If he did take it he failed miserably to halt his late in career decline. A sad sight to behold for us fans back then. As for Tom House, I'm not going to get into the whys and wherefores but IMO he is a BS artist when it comes to this issue. Not here, but if we ever meet I will tell you exactly why I feel that way. Whatever he took it failed miserably too. He was at best a journeyman pitcher. You think it is "mental gymnastics" and an attempt to excuse behavior that occurred in a supposedly more pristine and innocent era. I think it is dumb as hell to say a popgun is as powerful as a bazooka. That is all. No excuses. Just hard reality.
No excuses except for, as I mentioned, trying to label it as some other imaginary tier of cheating, some lesser form. "Performance enablers". Or pop guns compared to bazookas. Tom House described exactly what the reality of all PEDs have become, and it's something I've said over and over, they've become part of the competition. But nooo, he' a bull**** artist because they didn't "work" for him. What if working for him means it made him into a journeyman pitcher when otherwise he may not have been in the MLB at all? It's not just the stars or the players who became stars because of PED use, it's all types of players. It became part of the game.
And again, try to dodge it all you want, there's a whole generation of players who cheated and among them Hall of Famers. And if numbers aren't one of the main reasons behind getting into the Hall of Fame (which I don't agree with at all but just for the sake of argument) but character and knowing what we know about players and their "respect" for the game is, well we better get ready to hate and remove a whoooolle bunch of players from the Hall of Fame. Because we should by now about how widespread drugs were in that era, that was the culture. Why isn't anyone arguing for an asterisk on that era? Why isn't there an asterisk next to Cal Ripken's Iron Man record? At what point does all this boil down to, okay, everyone within the game knows about it,they knew about it back in the 60s, they know about it now, no one really did anything until **** started blowing up in people's faces, it wasn't until people OUTSIDE the game started finding out about it that things changed. So what's the point of singling out this guy or that guy when everyone
was complicit in letting things go the way they did?
But no, that's raining on the self-righteous parade against these more recent cheating ball players! We don't want their sorry cheating asses next to other "lesser", sorry cheating asses already in the Hall of Fame! That would be spitting on the sanctity of the game, dragging it through the mud! Can't have that! This revisionist history people have of baseball, it's mind boggling to me. Steroids saved