HOF Ballot Announced: Liars, Cheaters, and Scumbags Included

[Lip Man 1]

Frank was eventually moved from first base because his throwing was a liability. He suffered an arm / shoulder injury his freshman year at Auburn playing football (he was a tight end) and it affected his motion and ability to get the ball across the diamond to 3rd base.

I have also been told (don't know if this is true or not) but Frank was embarrassed by this. He may have actually requested the move although publicly he was opposed to it.

Lip

[Tragg]

Originally Posted by russ99

I doubt Frank gets in first ballot, and that will be a bigger travesty than Biggio falling short this year.

Biggio not getting in as a first-ballot guy is not a travesty. He belongs, but, imo, first-ballot should be reserved for the superstars.
Frank will get in.

[CoopaLoop]

Someday, I hope someone explains to me how not voting someone in on the first ballot but doing it the next time around makes any sense.

[Nellie_Fox]

Originally Posted by Tragg

Biggio not getting in as a first-ballot guy is not a travesty. He belongs, but, imo, first-ballot should be reserved for the superstars.
Frank will get in.

I know that this is the prevailing wisdom, and the writers consider a first-ballot election to be an extra-special award, but I think it's just dumb. If the guy is a Hall of Famer in the second year, what changed from his first year? Nothing.

[Hendu]

Originally Posted by CoopaLoop

Someday, I hope someone explains to me how not voting someone in on the first ballot but doing it the next time around makes any sense.

Agreed. Also, if anyone already in the HOF is suspected of cheating, whether real or an "eye test" they should be kicked out then (cough...Cal Ripken and his "I'm not in a position to judge" comment...cough). That's the can of worms that the voters are opening.

This whole thing about punishing an era is ridiculous. It happened. We saw these guys put up monster numbers. And for Bud Selig, the owners, and the HOF not to give voters some kind of guidance on how to treat this era is equally ridiculous.

But ya I'm gonna make the trip to Cooperstown to see that Jim Rice plaque. What a joke the baseball HOF is.

[chicagowhitesox1]

Originally Posted by Hendu

Agreed. Also, if anyone already in the HOF is suspected of cheating, whether real or an "eye test" they should be kicked out then (cough...Cal Ripken and his "I'm not in a position to judge" comment...cough). That's the can of worms that the voters are opening.

This whole thing about punishing an era is ridiculous. It happened. We saw these guys put up monster numbers. And for Bud Selig, the owners, and the HOF not to give voters some kind of guidance on how to treat this era is equally ridiculous.

But ya I'm gonna make the trip to Cooperstown to see that Jim Rice plaque. What a joke the baseball HOF is.

I've heard steroid rumors on Cal Ripken, Nolan Ryan, Dennis Eckersley, Rickey Henderson and Roberto Alomar. I can't say if any of them used but I would put money on the fact that at least one of them did use at so the hof is already more than likely tainted with steroids.

I don't agree with revoking a guys hof status because really the only reason anyone cares about steroids now instead of 20 years ago is because Hank Aarons and RogerMaris's records were broken. Every babyboomer in the country loved Nolan Ryan in the early 90's but can you imagine a 45 year old pitcher today striking out 300 batters and what the fans and media would be thinking.

[TDog]

Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox

I know that this is the prevailing wisdom, and the writers consider a first-ballot election to be an extra-special award, but I think it's just dumb. If the guy is a Hall of Famer in the second year, what changed from his first year? Nothing.

I don't know that there are that many voters who don't vote for players because they don't believe they are worthy of first-ballot election, although there apparently are a few vocal ones who take that approach. Really, if everyone was taking that approach, there would be some players worthy of serious consideration who wouldn't be on a second ballot. Does anyone care or even remember that Carlton Fisk didn't get elected in his first year of eligibility?

Especially with some of the controversial players on the ballot this time around, I think there are some players that voters simply aren't sure about. I didn't see any way that players as unpopular with the public right now as Barry Bonds were going to get elected. I certainly wouldn't have voted for him. And I don't expect I would ever vote for him.

Then there are some voters who have their guys they want to see get in, and they don't vote for anyone else, even though they can put up to 10 names on their ballot.

I'm really not surprised no one was elected this year.

[CoopaLoop]

Originally Posted by Hendu

Agreed. Also, if anyone already in the HOF is suspected of cheating, whether real or an "eye test" they should be kicked out then (cough...Cal Ripken and his "I'm not in a position to judge" comment...cough). That's the can of worms that the voters are opening.

This whole thing about punishing an era is ridiculous. It happened. We saw these guys put up monster numbers. And for Bud Selig, the owners, and the HOF not to give voters some kind of guidance on how to treat this era is equally ridiculous.

But ya I'm gonna make the trip to Cooperstown to see that Jim Rice plaque. What a joke the baseball HOF is.

That's the thing, a whole era of players are going to be judged by a group of writers who benefited off of them juicing during the 90's? If you weren't campaigning against juice then, you can't punish them now.

Bonds and Clemens should be in and if you feel the need to make mention of steroids I am all for it, but to pretend the steroid era never happened is just silly.

[spawn]

Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox

I know that this is the prevailing wisdom, and the writers consider a first-ballot election to be an extra-special award, but I think it's just dumb. If the guy is a Hall of Famer in the second year, what changed from his first year? Nothing.

Exactly. That whole "first ballot" HOF'er argument is just nonsense IMO. Just shows how elitist the Baseball Hall Of Fame voting is. Case in point...Joe DiMaggio got in on his 3rd year being on the ballot. Really? Just ridiculous. Either you're a Hall of Famer or you're not.

[Hitmen77]

Originally Posted by whitesox5187

jack morris got the same votes as last year, 66.7%, bagwell and piazza got 59.6 and 57.8%, tim raines got 52%, clemens and bonds got 37.6% and 36.2% of the vote, sosa got 12.5%, kenny lofton and sandy alomar are off the ballot.

762*

[PalehosePlanet]

Originally Posted by Hendu

Agreed. Also, if anyone already in the HOF is suspected of cheating, whether real or an "eye test" they should be kicked out then (cough...Cal Ripken and his "I'm not in a position to judge" comment...cough). That's the can of worms that the voters are opening.

This whole thing about punishing an era is ridiculous. It happened. We saw these guys put up monster numbers. And for Bud Selig, the owners, and the HOF not to give voters some kind of guidance on how to treat this era is equally ridiculous.

But ya I'm gonna make the trip to Cooperstown to see that Jim Rice plaque. What a joke the baseball HOF is.

Don't forget to stop by Phil Rizutto's bust. Those 1588 career hits are great for a laugh. Who knew the HOF had such a great sense of humor?

Here are the similar players to Rizutto according to basball-refernce:

1. Art Fletcher
2. Billy Rogell
3. Billy Jurges
4. Claude Ritchey
5. Lonny Frey
6. Marty Marion
7. Doggie Miller
8. Lyn Lary
9. Jose Offerman
10. Hughie Critz

Household names galore! I bet Jose Offerman doesn't even know that he is HOF caliber.

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet

Don't forget to stop by Phil Rizutto's bust.

Is it sponsored by The Money Store?

[Tragg]

Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox

I know that this is the prevailing wisdom, and the writers consider a first-ballot election to be an extra-special award, but I think it's just dumb. If the guy is a Hall of Famer in the second year, what changed from his first year? Nothing.

Well, the Hall of Fame is now very broad and clearly not reserved for "Great" players. So that's just one small way of distinguishing between a great player. Dumb, I guess, but no harm either.
Next year, I'd put it in Maddux and Frank; the others would have to wait.

[asindc]

Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet

Don't forget to stop by Phil Rizutto's bust. Those 1588 career hits are great for a laugh. Who knew the HOF had such a great sense of humor?

Here are the similar players to Rizutto according to basball-refernce:

1. Art Fletcher
2. Billy Rogell
3. Billy Jurges
4. Claude Ritchey
5. Lonny Frey
6. Marty Marion
7. Doggie Miller
8. Lyn Lary
9. Jose Offerman
10. Hughie Critz

Household names galore! I bet Jose Offerman doesn't even know that he is HOF caliber.

Phil Rizzuto is the Ron Santo of the Yanks.

[asindc]

Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187

Jack Morris got the same votes as last year, 66.7%, Bagwell and Piazza got 59.6 and 57.8%, Tim Raines got 52%, Clemens and Bonds got 37.6% and 36.2% of the vote, Sosa got 12.5%, Kenny Lofton and Sandy Alomar are off the ballot.

It continues to be a sick joke that Tim Raines has not been voted in.