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  #16  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:29 PM
DaveFeelsRight DaveFeelsRight is offline
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Yeah, if the Rays would accept Floyd for Zobrist straight up then they must be on something.
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  #17  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:44 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by johnnyg83 View Post
Whoa, my bad, especially if you go by WAR -- even massive amounts of drugs may not be enough.

I was thinking Gavin's a relatively inexpensive starter who averages 29+ starts and may give them a 3 or 4 with some experience.
I think Floyd can get us something back, but he just doesn't fit with the Rays.
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  #18  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:07 AM
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Like "Little Nell" I watch many Rays games. Zobrist is their type of player--versatile, good defensively at several positions, a little speed, above average power. I don't believe there's any Sox position player that would net him in a head up deal. Floyd certainly doesn't seem to fit the Rays model. Their organization historically has been extremely deep in starting pitchers. Every season they debut a couple of youngsters that get their feet wet in the bigs and are ready to contribute quickly. Floyd and his $$$ won't be enjoying the sunset over the white sandy beaches.
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  #19  
Old 12-28-2012, 03:03 PM
getonbckthr getonbckthr is offline
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I would assume Zobrist has to be nearing the end of his contract soon. Maybe Thornton, DeAza and a prospect? also if we were getting Zobrist that might indicate talks about Alexei and Tank as the main pieces to Arizona for Upton were somewhat realistic.
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  #20  
Old 12-28-2012, 03:10 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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I would assume Zobrist has to be nearing the end of his contract soon.
Club options for '14 and '15.
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  #21  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:49 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Zobrist would be a great fit for the Sox.

Two reasons the Rays entertain this - He's making $5.5M next season with a $7M option for 2014, i.e. getting priced out of their range for a secondary player and they need a cost-controlled power bat with Upton gone - which means Viciedo going the other way.

IMO, Viciedo alone wouldn't get a deal done for Zobrist, we'd probably have to throw in one of our OF prospects and/or a young reliever like Nate Jones.

The question for me is would the Sox risk Viciedo potentially equaling Zobrist's numbers in the near future - making the deal for a more refined and reliable hitter but one who's likely hitting FA in 1-2 more years?

If I were Hahn, I'd push for a younger player with more upside if they're thinking of dealing Viciedo.
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  #22  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:04 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Zobrist would be a great fit for the Sox.

Two reasons the Rays entertain this - He's making $5.5M next season with a $7M option for 2014, i.e. getting priced out of their range for a secondary player and they need a cost-controlled power bat with Upton gone - which means Viciedo going the other way.

IMO, Viciedo alone wouldn't get a deal done for Zobrist, we'd probably have to throw in one of our OF prospects and/or a young reliever like Nate Jones.

The question for me is would the Sox risk Viciedo potentially equaling Zobrist's numbers in the near future - making the deal for a more refined and reliable hitter but one who's likely hitting FA in 1-2 more years?

If I were Hahn, I'd push for a younger player with more upside if they're thinking of dealing Viciedo.
He's not a secondary player. At 7.5 million in 2 years he is still one of the best bargains in baseball. This thread is way off what it would cost to acquire him, of he is even available. Please check Zobrist's numbers the past few seasons.
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  #23  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:30 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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On what planet is Ben Zobrist a utility player or a "secondary" player?

Four straight seasons of 600 plate appearances.

.297 .405 .543
.238 .346 .353
.269 .353 .469
.270 .377 .471
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  #24  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
The question for me is would the Sox risk Viciedo potentially equaling Zobrist's numbers in the near future
I wouldn't worry too much about that happening.
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  #25  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:31 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
He's not a secondary player. At 7.5 million in 2 years he is still one of the best bargains in baseball. This thread is way off what it would cost to acquire him, of he is even available. Please check Zobrist's numbers the past few seasons.
I don't consider Zobrist a secondary player as far as performance or even value, my reasoning was his value vs. salary specifically for Tampa, since they are committed to pay Longoria $6M in 2013 with his salary going up every year to $7.5M in 2014, and $11M in 2015.

They've always had issues holding onto players when their salaries are raised to market level. They chose to let Upton go this offseason. For what Zobrist gives them on a raw numbers level, I don't see him staying with Tampa much longer.

Sure they could keep him for 1 or 2 more years, but then get nothing for him in FA, and they need an infusion of hitting talent that can take over some spots at the big league level and hold down positions at a lowered cost for a number of seasons.

Not sure if the Sox are that team even if we give them my suggested offer of Viciedo, Trayce Thompson or Keenyn Walker, and a young reliever like Nate Jones.

Since Zobrist is going to be paid $7M next year and a FA in 2 years, I don't see Tampa getting much more for him than that despite his good numbers.
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  #26  
Old 12-29-2012, 08:12 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
I don't consider Zobrist a secondary player as far as performance or even value, my reasoning was his value vs. salary specifically for Tampa, since they are committed to pay Longoria $6M in 2013 with his salary going up every year to $7.5M in 2014, and $11M in 2015.

They've always had issues holding onto players when their salaries are raised to market level. They chose to let Upton go this offseason. For what Zobrist gives them on a raw numbers level, I don't see him staying with Tampa much longer.

Sure they could keep him for 1 or 2 more years, but then get nothing for him in FA, and they need an infusion of hitting talent that can take over some spots at the big league level and hold down positions at a lowered cost for a number of seasons.

Not sure if the Sox are that team even if we give them my suggested offer of Viciedo, Trayce Thompson or Keenyn Walker, and a young reliever like Nate Jones.

Since Zobrist is going to be paid $7M next year and a FA in 2 years, I don't see Tampa getting much more for him than that despite his good numbers.
He is owed less than $20 million total the next 3 years. He has been one of the most valuable players in baseball the last 4 seasons. Fangraphs says his performance has averaged about $25 million a year. It would take a huge package to get him from Tampa. A lot bigger than anyone has mentioned. This thread is way off. He instantly would be the White Sox best player, and it really isn't even close. If he became available, every team would want him. They could do a lot better than the offers in this thread. People have no idea how good of a player this guy is.
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  #27  
Old 12-29-2012, 09:21 AM
moochpuppy moochpuppy is offline
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The Sox don't have the players the Rays need anyway. Tampa needs middle infielders which the Sox don't have (good enough to get Zobrist). They Rays don't need pitching or OFers.
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  #28  
Old 12-29-2012, 11:50 AM
mzh mzh is offline
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I wouldn't worry too much about that happening.
You really don't think Dayan could potentially put up at least .268/19/83? That's what Zobrist averaged over the last 4 years. He'll never walk as much as Zobrist, but people here seem to undercut Viciedo's value as a 24 year old who despite his flaws can ****ing mash.
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  #29  
Old 12-29-2012, 11:58 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Originally Posted by mzh View Post
You really don't think Dayan could potentially put up at least .268/19/83? That's what Zobrist averaged over the last 4 years. He'll never walk as much as Zobrist, but people here seem to undercut Viciedo's value as a 24 year old who despite his flaws can ****ing mash.
I'm not one of the Viciedo bashers by any means, but the thing that makes Zobrist signicantly more valuable is not only his OBP but his ability to play just about every position with some proficiency.

If Viciedo does get to that slash line(though that's not exactly the triple slash I would use) he'd definitely be considerably less valuable than Zobrist. He's a (poor to mediocre) corner outfielder, not an incredibly versatile middle infielder who can also play OF better than Viciedo.
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  #30  
Old 12-29-2012, 02:53 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzh View Post
You really don't think Dayan could potentially put up at least .268/19/83? That's what Zobrist averaged over the last 4 years. He'll never walk as much as Zobrist, but people here seem to undercut Viciedo's value as a 24 year old who despite his flaws can ****ing mash.
Just because he can mash has little impact on his future value, there's tons of guys with power who didn't hit well enough otherwise to become an impact player.

If you want to have fun with numbers, how about these: Both players first full season in the majors - one at 22 and one at 23

Player 1 - 364 AB, 26 HR, 66 RBI, 108Ks, .259/.316/.527

Player 2 - 505 AB, 25 HR, 78 RBI, 120Ks, .255/.300/.444

Player 2 is Viciedo, player 1 is Willy Mo Pena, who had a better first year than Viciedo in 150 less ABs, and yet still fell off the map.

There is a possibility that Viciedo will break some his bad hitting habits, be more patient at the plate, go the other way against tough outside pitches, work his way to better hitter counts, strike out less, etc.

But until he does, he doesn't belong in the same breath as a guy like Zobrist, especially if that is just because some people are in love with the long ball.
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