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  #16  
Old 12-23-2012, 06:16 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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The Sox need quite a bit before they can legitimately compete for the division. How they can get the players is the question. They have very little worth within the organization and haven't spent for FA's. I guess pulling rabbits out of the hat is only possibility.
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  #17  
Old 12-23-2012, 07:19 PM
Bob Roarman Bob Roarman is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
With or without Thornton, the Bullpen will be pretty decent this year.
I don't really know that a decent bullpen is a sure thing for any team in the league. They'll always be the worst pitchers on the staff, they'll almost always be up and down from one year to the next and/or throughout any given year. You just have to hope 2 or 3 of them put together a solid season or perform over their heads (like a few did last season) and you have a good closer (which is still unknown with Reed, we'll see).
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  #18  
Old 12-23-2012, 11:00 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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No reason to have Sanchez at the major league level this year. I'd like to see him get a full year of at bats in the minors instead of sitting on the bench here.
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2012, 11:26 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
No reason to have Sanchez at the major league level this year. I'd like to see him get a full year of at bats in the minors instead of sitting on the bench here.
I think the OP meant Angel, not Carlos Sanchez. We picked him up in the Rule V draft this year to be a utility man. I'd imagine Carlos, barring injuries, will stay in the minors this season.
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2012, 11:51 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet View Post
I think the OP meant Angel, not Carlos Sanchez. We picked him up in the Rule V draft this year to be a utility man. I'd imagine Carlos, barring injuries, will stay in the minors this season.
Oh, word. That makes much more sense.
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  #21  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:27 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Sorry, to clarify a couple things from my original post, I have a bad feeling about both Quintana and Floyd honestly. Floyd's lack of confidence and diminishing control, I just have a gut feeling this is the year it catches up to him and he has an ERA in the 5s. Quintana scares the crap out of me. A soft tossing lefty without great movement or great location, he got the snot kicked out of him the 2nd time teams saw him. I don't think he lasts. If anything, I am more excited about Santiago than I am Quintana. Atleast Santiago has a plus pitch.

The bullpen, I think it has some quality arms, but its thin. I see another year of overuse by Ventura.
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  #22  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:40 AM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Sorry, to clarify a couple things from my original post, I have a bad feeling about both Quintana and Floyd honestly. Floyd's lack of confidence and diminishing control, I just have a gut feeling this is the year it catches up to him and he has an ERA in the 5s. Quintana scares the crap out of me. A soft tossing lefty without great movement or great location, he got the snot kicked out of him the 2nd time teams saw him. I don't think he lasts. If anything, I am more excited about Santiago than I am Quintana. Atleast Santiago has a plus pitch.

The bullpen, I think it has some quality arms, but its thin. I see another year of overuse by Ventura.
Well I will take 5 years of data that says he is a pitcher with an ERA just a tick over 4 over your gut feeling.

Floyd is a fine number 4 starter.

I agree with you on Santiago over Quintana though. I like Santiago's stuff more and I wonder if Quintana can do it again now that everyone will have a book out on him.
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  #23  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:12 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Statistically, Floyd and Anibal Sanchez are the same pitcher. Look at the contract Sanchez just received. That tells you probably GM's value Floyd a lot more than Sox fans.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #24  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:40 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Suno:

I disagree. The Sox need some hitters in that lineup. They are probably going to have to trade some pitching to get them.

There are five players on your projected roster that would not be on the roster of any real "contender" in my opinion. Like Russ speculated, with that roster you might get to .500...maybe.

Lip
Yep, if the made no moves they'd be good enough for around .500. But then we Sox fans could retain our annual bragging rights of being the "fiscally responsible" team. We'll scoff at other teams handing out $15M/year contracts to players that are only slightly above average...and then sit at home and watch those same teams play during the post season.
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  #25  
Old 12-24-2012, 12:51 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Sorry, to clarify a couple things from my original post, I have a bad feeling about both Quintana and Floyd honestly. Floyd's lack of confidence and diminishing control, I just have a gut feeling this is the year it catches up to him and he has an ERA in the 5s. Quintana scares the crap out of me. A soft tossing lefty without great movement or great location, he got the snot kicked out of him the 2nd time teams saw him. I don't think he lasts. If anything, I am more excited about Santiago than I am Quintana. Atleast Santiago has a plus pitch.

The bullpen, I think it has some quality arms, but its thin. I see another year of overuse by Ventura.
I hate to make the comparison, but I don't remember Buehrle having "great movement" on anything but his curveball really. He was also a soft-tossing control pitcher, that, if he didn't have his cutter on that given day, would get hit hard by righties. Going for him, Quintana throws slightly harder than I remember Buehrle throwing at the same age...and he's also still young for a pitcher. If I remember my baseball knowledge right, pitchers usually don't start to really figure stuff out until they're around 27-28 or so...and Quintana is just 23.

I will say that my dad has said that Buehrle was both the best defensive pitcher and smartest pitcher that he's seen since Greg Maddoux, and the best he's seen on the White Sox since Billy Pierce (who was also a soft-tossing lefty?). So Quintana has a high bill to live up to.

Basically what I'm trying to say is have a little faith. I know you have a bad feeling about the guy, but have a little faith. The guy is still baseball young and will have his challenges. What he has shown me so far I like: he's got a lot of guts for a guy his age, and when he's got his control he's pretty good. If his control is off that day, he's shown the ability to limit the damage and at least save the bullpen from having to cover too many innings. I remember two games specifically where this happened--one of them was against the Yankees I'm pretty sure--where he didn't have his control at all during the first two innings or so and got absolutely hammered, but was able to end up going 6-7 innings and help get the team the win.

It remains to be seen if Quintana can fully grasp the strategy side of pitching, but if he does I think he's got a good chance of becoming at the very least serviceable. And honestly, with what he throws and how he throws it, he's going to have to do it eventually if he wants to last in MLB.

Also for the record, I'm not high on Santiago. Sure, he's got a good changeup and a decent fastball and is left-handed...but if his out pitch--that changeup--isn't working...which seemed to happen quite often last season...then it's a struggle for him to get people out. At least Quintana can do it more reliably when in trouble.

I also want to point out something I think is important about Quintana: last year between the minors and the majors the guy threw 185 IP, the most he's done in his professional career. So yes, I think that he got tired toward the end. If he can even flirt with giving the White Sox 200 IP every year and give a .500 effort or even a bit better? I'll take that out of a 5th starter any day at the very least.
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  #26  
Old 12-24-2012, 05:19 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Donnie:

Billy was a hard thrower who led the A.L. in strikeouts one year (among other categories in his career). Both Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio were quoted as saying Billy "threw very hard..."

Lip
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  #27  
Old 12-24-2012, 06:03 PM
sunofgold sunofgold is offline
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Danks will be back in the rotation. Sale has a year of experience as a starter now. Santiago can be used in the rotation. No Humber in the rotation. Starting rotation seems better now than last year.

Rios and Dunn can build upon their successful 2012 seasons and be even better new year.

Keppinger looks kinda nice in the two spot.

Konerko had a horrible second half but probably bc he was playing hurt. A healthy PK could put up more hrs and RBIs next year.
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  #28  
Old 12-24-2012, 08:59 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
Statistically, Floyd and Anibal Sanchez are the same pitcher. Look at the contract Sanchez just received. That tells you probably GM's value Floyd a lot more than Sox fans.
Since he came up, in 6 of 8 seasons Sanchez has posted an ERA in the three's or lower (the two seasons he didn't he wasn't a starter). In what universe has Floyd been that consistent?

edit: Okay, so now I see this is based on NOTHING. Floyd's career ERA is nearly a run higher than Sanchez's. It's not even close.
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  #29  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:15 PM
winstonage winstonage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Since he came up, in 6 of 8 seasons Sanchez has posted an ERA in the three's or lower (the two seasons he didn't he wasn't a starter). In what universe has Floyd been that consistent?

edit: Okay, so now I see this is based on NOTHING. Floyd's career ERA is nearly a run higher than Sanchez's. It's not even close.
It's closer than you think. Pitching in the AL will raise your ERA between 1/2 to 3/4 of a run. Floyd is also a fly ball pitcher in a home run hitters park.
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  #30  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:46 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Since he came up, in 6 of 8 seasons Sanchez has posted an ERA in the three's or lower (the two seasons he didn't he wasn't a starter). In what universe has Floyd been that consistent?

edit: Okay, so now I see this is based on NOTHING. Floyd's career ERA is nearly a run higher than Sanchez's. It's not even close.
Their Hits/9, K/9, BB/9, WHIP are all about the same career wise. Except that Gavin has pitched his entire career (sans a few outings) in the AL, a hitters league, and in a hitter's park, while Sanchez has pitched in a pitcher's league (sans a few outings) and in pitcher's parks his entire career.

In Interleague games Sanchez has a 5.00 ERA and 1.49 WHIP; Floyd has a 2.79 ERA and a 1.07 WHIP.

Take the AL/NL ERA exchange into account and their ERA is the about the same.

Also, Sanchez has ALWAYS been a starter -- one single relief outing in his fluke 2.83 ERA rookie year. Do your homework for a change before you jump into an argument and so adamantly state your (incorrect) viewpoint Munch.

Last edited by PalehosePlanet; 12-25-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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