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  #61  
Old 12-11-2012, 01:19 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
And my point is that this trade doesn't make them threats this year either. Just another 80-85 win team that will end up in 3rd place.
80-85 wins is very threatening in this division. You only needed 86 to win it.
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  #62  
Old 12-11-2012, 01:46 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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80-85 wins is very threatening in this division. You only needed 86 to win it.
Detroit won 88 so you'd need 89 to win it, but I get the point. I still don't think they will top out over 85 (and I don't even think that), which would put them 3rd still last year. I suppose that we will have to wait and see who is correct. I'm sure I'll forget all about this conversation by that point!
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  #63  
Old 12-11-2012, 02:28 PM
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Detroit's floor is still probably a few wins above where KC's ceiling is -- that's what, to me, is the most puzzling.

I have no problem with a team trading prospects to win now (the Brewers gambling w/ Sabbathia and Greinke, Giants w/ Beltran) if they're close, but KC isn't really close to anything but mediocrity. If that's what they're shooting for, it must be depressing as hell to be a Royals fan.
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  #64  
Old 12-11-2012, 03:55 PM
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If that's what they're shooting for, it must be depressing as hell to be a Royals fan.
Sounds an awful lot like White Sox baseball
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  #65  
Old 12-11-2012, 04:10 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Sounds an awful lot like White Sox baseball
Really? They've had, what, 2 winning seasons in the last 20 years or something? We're not nearly as bad off.
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  #66  
Old 12-11-2012, 04:27 PM
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Really? They've had, what, 2 winning seasons in the last 20 years or something? We're not nearly as bad off.
In the end is there really any difference between 70-75 wins per year and 80-85?
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  #67  
Old 12-11-2012, 05:01 PM
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In the end is there really any difference between 70-75 wins per year and 80-85?
We've made the playoffs three times since 2000, with one World Series title. When did they last make it, 25 years ago?
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  #68  
Old 12-11-2012, 05:10 PM
johnnyg83 johnnyg83 is offline
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They're solid now everywhere but 2b and RF.
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  #69  
Old 12-11-2012, 05:17 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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In the end is there really any difference between 70-75 wins per year and 80-85?
Absolutely. One keeps you interested and in the hunt for the playoffs throughout the season, the other you know you're out of it by June.
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  #70  
Old 12-11-2012, 07:44 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Agreed.

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  #71  
Old 12-11-2012, 07:53 PM
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Most prospects fail sure, but guys rated as highly as Myers don't usually fail.

James Shields has had one season where he would be anything other than a solid number two guy. You don't give up the farm for a guy like that.

Trade just reeks of a GM feeling the pressure to do something now.

Rotation right now has Ervin Santana as it's number two. This is not a playoff contender or even a borderline one imo.

They have a glaring need in RF and were about to fill it with a guy they would have had control of for 6 years, but they give him away for a pitcher who will be 31 in a week.
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  #72  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:51 PM
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Most prospects fail sure, but guys rated as highly as Myers don't usually
Ha ha, what? Myers was BA's #28 prospect this year and his K:BB rate has progressively gotten worse as he's moved from A+, AA, and AAA. Guys like this fail ALL. THE. TIME. He's arguably not even their top OF prospect.
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  #73  
Old 12-11-2012, 11:04 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Ha ha, what? Myers was BA's #28 prospect this year and his K:BB rate has progressively gotten worse as he's moved from A+, AA, and AAA. Guys like this fail ALL. THE. TIME. He's arguably not even their top OF prospect.
He was Baseball America's Minor League Player of the Year in 2012.

Who do you think was a bigger prospect for them in the OF? Cain?

He's in pretty good company there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basebal...the_Year_Award
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  #74  
Old 12-12-2012, 12:00 AM
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Starling. I'm not saying it's definite, just noting the Royals aren't exactly hurting for blue chip MiLB OF
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  #75  
Old 12-12-2012, 12:09 AM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
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To say that the talent has produced 'absolutely squat' is really not true. They've graduated a bunch of position players (I'll add Salvador Perez to those mentioned earlier), but they made this trade because their pitching hasn't produced anyone good yet (besides Greinke). This trade may pay off for them, but Shields is signed only through 2014. I question why a team like them who are limited in payroll will be paying Ervin Santana and Jeremy Guthrie $20 million in 2013.

I think this was another good article looking at the trade:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...-team-building
This bolded point is why the trade is a bad one and will get Moore fired over time. He didn't believe that anyone would want to play for his team, so he went ahead and used his payroll space on questionable entities. It's a poor attitude to show, and it keeps bad teams in the cellar. Teams like KC and Pittsburgh would be better off using their money for quality FAs that FIT, even with an overpay. Agree with it or not, the message is clear.

Nobody was out in demand for Santana and Guthrie. He needlessly boxed himself into a corner, and had to part with a prospect that quite likely will provide value at the major league level.

His ceiling is unknown, but I doubt that Myers will be a scrub. His slash line projects to a decent hitter with below average defense. That's just the lowest benchmark. I mean, hell, Mark Reynolds got a contract a few days ago.

Tampa is one of the best run franchises in the game. If they didn't think he could play, I doubt that they would have pursued him.
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