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  #106  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:47 AM
Red Barchetta Red Barchetta is offline
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Originally Posted by wilburaga View Post
This discussion of the relative merits of the skill infield positions makes me realize how much I miss Juan Uribe. Has any other Sox player ever had a significant tenure as a regular at shortstop, second base, and third base? I'm not advocating getting him back, but a large percentage of my favorite Sox memories feature his fat ass. And cannon arm.
I agree. I'm glad we have Alexi at SS, however I miss Uribe's versatility. I was happy for him when he earned another WS ring with the Giants.
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  #107  
Old 12-07-2012, 10:35 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Gordon is a better 2B than 3B. Beckham, as frustrating as he is is actually not a terrible offensive 2B plus his defense is top notch. Moving him to 3B would absolutely crush what little value he brings to this team.
Depends on what you consider not terrible. I'd say he's got bipolar results at the plate. Pretty good run production for when he gets a good swing on the ball, but tons of K's, awful at-bat after at-bat and he's averaged hitting .232 the last two seasons.

If he could find some consistency, he'd be a keeper. We'll have to see.

Without A.J., we still have potentially one 40+, one 30+ and three 20+ home run hitters in the lineup.

Power isn't the issue this offseason, balance is. Every position doesn't require a hitter with power as long as he can handle the bat.
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  #108  
Old 12-07-2012, 11:00 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Depends on what you consider not terrible. I'd say he's got bipolar results at the plate. Pretty good run production for when he gets a good swing on the ball, but tons of K's, awful at-bat after at-bat and he's averaged hitting .232 the last two seasons.
Here is the average American League 2B for 2012:

.249/.310/.372/.682, 13 HR, 62 RBI, 76 R, 30 D, 3 T, 52 BB, 110 K, 15/20 SB, 93.0 AB/HR

Here is Beckham in 2012:

.234/.296/.371/.668, 16 HR, 60 RBI, 62 R, 24 D, 0 T, 40 BB, 89 K, 5/9 SB, 32.8 AB/HR

I know we all think Beckham should be an All-Star caliber 2B based on his draft position and effortless minor league success but it's pretty clear he's not that kind of player, however, considering the position he plays and the type of defense he brings, he's still a useful player at 2B.

Look at the offensive production Detroit got from it's 2B last season and they won the division. Offense from your middle infielders is nice to have, but not essential.
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  #109  
Old 12-10-2012, 03:32 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Here is the average American League 2B for 2012:

.249/.310/.372/.682, 13 HR, 62 RBI, 76 R, 30 D, 3 T, 52 BB, 110 K, 15/20 SB, 93.0 AB/HR

Here is Beckham in 2012:

.234/.296/.371/.668, 16 HR, 60 RBI, 62 R, 24 D, 0 T, 40 BB, 89 K, 5/9 SB, 32.8 AB/HR

I know we all think Beckham should be an All-Star caliber 2B based on his draft position and effortless minor league success but it's pretty clear he's not that kind of player, however, considering the position he plays and the type of defense he brings, he's still a useful player at 2B.

Look at the offensive production Detroit got from it's 2B last season and they won the division. Offense from your middle infielders is nice to have, but not essential.
Love this, thanks for the data to back it up......That's what I've been telling people. Decent glove, and average offensively (for the position) for what 650k??

Also Keppy is a huge addition, as of now he's starting 3B......Brings a ton of utility and opens a lot of trade windows...

I'd like to see some fuel to the Ellsbury talks. BOS wants a SP, Floyd for Ellsbury........Possibly beckham and flowers for ellsbury and salti????
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  #110  
Old 12-10-2012, 07:25 PM
cheezheadsoxfan cheezheadsoxfan is offline
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did someone say teahen had upside? Joke of the year.
lol!
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  #111  
Old 12-10-2012, 07:45 PM
cheezheadsoxfan cheezheadsoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by wilburaga View Post
This discussion of the relative merits of the skill infield positions makes me realize how much I miss Juan Uribe. Has any other Sox player ever had a significant tenure as a regular at shortstop, second base, and third base? I'm not advocating getting him back, but a large percentage of my favorite Sox memories feature his fat ass. And cannon arm.
Well put. As much as that corkscrew swing drove me nuts, he was great to watch on defense.
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  #112  
Old 12-10-2012, 07:48 PM
cheezheadsoxfan cheezheadsoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Here is the average American League 2B for 2012:

.249/.310/.372/.682, 13 HR, 62 RBI, 76 R, 30 D, 3 T, 52 BB, 110 K, 15/20 SB, 93.0 AB/HR

Here is Beckham in 2012:

.234/.296/.371/.668, 16 HR, 60 RBI, 62 R, 24 D, 0 T, 40 BB, 89 K, 5/9 SB, 32.8 AB/HR

I know we all think Beckham should be an All-Star caliber 2B based on his draft position and effortless minor league success but it's pretty clear he's not that kind of player, however, considering the position he plays and the type of defense he brings, he's still a useful player at 2B.

Look at the offensive production Detroit got from it's 2B last season and they won the division. Offense from your middle infielders is nice to have, but not essential.
Thank you. I think a lot of fans, disappointed that Beckham hasn't lived up the the hype, feel that he worthless. We could do a lot worse.
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  #113  
Old 12-10-2012, 08:16 PM
sunofgold sunofgold is offline
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Default Contract for Keppy

Contract for the Keppenger.

2013 3.5m
2014 4 m
2015 4.5 m

Guess that is it. Re-signed peavy, wise and got Kep. Pulled angel Sanchez away.
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  #114  
Old 12-10-2012, 09:25 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Here is the average American League 2B for 2012:

.249/.310/.372/.682, 13 HR, 62 RBI, 76 R, 30 D, 3 T, 52 BB, 110 K, 15/20 SB, 93.0 AB/HR

Here is Beckham in 2012:

.234/.296/.371/.668, 16 HR, 60 RBI, 62 R, 24 D, 0 T, 40 BB, 89 K, 5/9 SB, 32.8 AB/HR

I know we all think Beckham should be an All-Star caliber 2B based on his draft position and effortless minor league success but it's pretty clear he's not that kind of player, however, considering the position he plays and the type of defense he brings, he's still a useful player at 2B.

Look at the offensive production Detroit got from it's 2B last season and they won the division. Offense from your middle infielders is nice to have, but not essential.
My point being above that regardless of the 16 homers and 62 RBI, Beckham posted an awful .234/.296

In the majors, of qualifying second basemen, there are 10 guys that hit over .260; 16 guys (one more than average) who hit over .250 and Beckham was second to last of all 2B qualifiers in OBP. If you want to really put the spotlight on run production, there were 10 qualifiers who hit the same number of or more homers and 15 qualifiers who had more RBIs.

Run production is a bonus from the 2B position, but he should at least be able to hit close to the average BA and OBP for his position.
At some point the above average glove won't make up for such mediocre numbers.

Maybe Keppinger on the team will get him to put up better at-bats.
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  #115  
Old 12-10-2012, 09:38 PM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Originally Posted by sunofgold View Post
Contract for the Keppenger.

2013 3.5m
2014 4 m
2015 4.5 m

Guess that is it. Re-signed peavy, wise and got Kep. Pulled angel Sanchez away.
That's it for now. Gotta shore up the 'pen though.
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  #116  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:26 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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I get the impression that Hahn is not through making some deals. He keeps saying as of now Keppenger is our third baseman. Maybe I'm reading into this, but maybe he might be our new second baseman. Perhaps Beckham will be moved in a trade with someone else for a third baseman.
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  #117  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
My point being above that regardless of the 16 homers and 62 RBI, Beckham posted an awful .234/.296

In the majors, of qualifying second basemen, there are 10 guys that hit over .260; 16 guys (one more than average) who hit over .250 and Beckham was second to last of all 2B qualifiers in OBP. If you want to really put the spotlight on run production, there were 10 qualifiers who hit the same number of or more homers and 15 qualifiers who had more RBIs.

Run production is a bonus from the 2B position, but he should at least be able to hit close to the average BA and OBP for his position.
At some point the above average glove won't make up for such mediocre numbers.

Maybe Keppinger on the team will get him to put up better at-bats.
But the thing is .234/.296 is actuall pretty close to the league average for a 2B. It's below average, yes, but it's not like this is a forceful offensive position. And whatever bit he leaves in terms of OBP and BA he more than makes up for with his run production, which is the name of the game, after all.

In a perfect world, maybe the Sox would look to upgrade their offense from 2B but that's not the most pressing need for this team. Considering the Tigers won the division and the league pennant despite getting absolutely miserable production from their 2B all year long, I'd say this is one of those items you can place on the Sox's dream list.

Oh, and Gordon's BAbip last year was .254, over 30 points lower than his career average entering the 2012 season, so it's not unrealistic to think he could bounce back to at least standard league averages in terms of BA and OBP next season. There's probably upgrades out there but the Sox can surely win with Gordon at 2B, too. I'm not too worried about it.
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  #118  
Old 12-11-2012, 01:02 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
I get the impression that Hahn is not through making some deals. He keeps saying as of now Keppenger is our third baseman. Maybe I'm reading into this, but maybe he might be our new second baseman. Perhaps Beckham will be moved in a trade with someone else for a third baseman.
If you scroll to the bottom of this article linked below, check out the full quote Hahn gives about the Keppinger signing. It definitely hints at the possibility of a trade. He doesn't mention 2B or Beckham specifically but he talks about the flexibility Keppinger gives him to make other moves as the offseason progresses.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news...s_cws&c_id=cws
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  #119  
Old 12-11-2012, 03:44 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Oh, and Gordon's BAbip last year was .254, over 30 points lower than his career average entering the 2012 season, so it's not unrealistic to think he could bounce back to at least standard league averages in terms of BA and OBP next season.
One of the major reasons his BABIP was so low was because he popped up the ball so damned much. So unless he can stop doing that, I don't see it improving.
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  #120  
Old 12-11-2012, 05:51 PM
sunofgold sunofgold is offline
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Default Pen looks decent

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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
That's it for now. Gotta shore up the 'pen though.
Reed
Nate Jones
veal
Thornton
Crain
Omogrosso

Maybe one more arm.
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