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  #46  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:40 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
2012 was arguably Cabrera's worst year in Detroit.
From 2008-2011 with Detroit he averaged .322/35/115. This year he hit .330/44/139. Not even close.
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  #47  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:35 PM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
This particular old guy hit .313 last year.
I still have nightmares about how he'd rob Crede,Uribe and various other Sox with his "Spiderman"-esque catches at the old Metrodoom.

It just seemed like this "Old Guy" hit .700-.800 against the Sox during those early nightmare years (2001-2006) when the Sox were lucky to go 9-9 against the Twinks.
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  #48  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:37 PM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
2012 was arguably Cabrera's worst year in Detroit.
I'd hate to see what his "best year" looks like.
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  #49  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:43 PM
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Just an FYI... Quentin Berry has no future on the Tigers. This is a good signing for the Tigers. Victor Martinez is replacing Delmon Young. Torii Hunter is replacing the myriad of OF they trotted out in the corners last year. I don't have the #'s in front of me but they were near the bottom in production for combined output from RF and LF. The only guys they had in the corner that produced were Dirks, who missed a lot of time due to injury and Garcia, who started the season in A ball and is only 21. He didn't come up until Aug 31 (I think it was against the Sox). The fact he was starting in the WS was not because of his talent but because of the lack of OF talent.
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  #50  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:49 PM
Oblong Oblong is offline
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Originally Posted by mzh View Post
From 2008-2011 with Detroit he averaged .322/35/115. This year he hit .330/44/139. Not even close.
Going by OPS+, 2012 was his 3rd worst year in Detroit. But you are talking 165 vs 178 and 179 so the difference is pretty much negligible.
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  #51  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Many of those who seem to not think Torii Hunter is very good are some of the same people who think Gordon Beckham is a great player .

They upgrade the offense in a corner OF spot while VASTLY improving the OF defense. Plus, Hunter is an incredible mentor to young players, and has been credited widely with helping Trout, Trumbo and many other young hitters flourish.

Detroit has a small window to go for it all right now, Probably 2 years, but many that window is now Wide Open.

They have 2 of the top 4 or 5 SP in the AL Central, and one of the best 1-2 punches in all of baseball.

They have the best middle of the order in baseball

Now they have a pretty solid defensive OF.

They need to shore up the bullpen, but this is a good team.
Name me one person who thinks that.
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  #52  
Old 11-15-2012, 11:31 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
Going by OPS+, 2012 was his 3rd worst year in Detroit. But you are talking 165 vs 178 and 179 so the difference is pretty much negligible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzh View Post
From 2008-2011 with Detroit he averaged .322/35/115. This year he hit .330/44/139. Not even close.
As Oblong said, it is that close. I had forgotten he's been there 5 years, not 3, however. But the last 3 years:
2010: .328/.420/.642; 84 XBH
2011: .344/.448/.586; 78 XBH
2012: .330/.393/.606; 84 XBH

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Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
Just an FYI... Quentin Berry has no future on the Tigers. This is a good signing for the Tigers. Victor Martinez is replacing Delmon Young. Torii Hunter is replacing the myriad of OF they trotted out in the corners last year. I don't have the #'s in front of me but they were near the bottom in production for combined output from RF and LF. The only guys they had in the corner that produced were Dirks, who missed a lot of time due to injury and Garcia, who started the season in A ball and is only 21. He didn't come up until Aug 31 (I think it was against the Sox). The fact he was starting in the WS was not because of his talent but because of the lack of OF talent.
Does Dirks get moved to RF, then?
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  #53  
Old 11-16-2012, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I'm not referring to "regressikon to the mean." That is for those that believe that past statistics tell you what future statistics will be.

Cabrera has had two straight seasons that should have won him the MVP. He will certainly win this year after Verlander lobbied to rob him of it last year. I don't believe its a matter of Cabrera regressing to his mean. I just don't believe that when he goes out for another season he will have a third straight MVP season.
You said that Cabrera and Fielder "were playing out of their minds offensively." I was merely pointing out that they were actually playing at an offensive rate that was pretty much their career norms, and certainly nothing enough out of the ordinary to have a reason to believe that they'll regress any significant amount this coming year.
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  #54  
Old 11-16-2012, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
You said that Cabrera and Fielder "were playing out of their minds offensively." I was merely pointing out that they were actually playing at an offensive rate that was pretty much their career norms, and certainly nothing enough out of the ordinary to have a reason to believe that they'll regress any significant amount this coming year.
Fielder had never been a .300 hitter, although he had come close in the National League, but he hit well over .300 with the Tigers. He didn't have as many home runs playing in a bigger ballpark and didn't have as many RBIs as he had in seasons with the Brewers, but he was hitting behind the league leader in RBIs and home runs. He didn't walk as much, in part because he wasn't being walked intentionally nearly as often, but he did better by getting hits when he wasn't walking and struck out appreciably less than he had been striking out in his last three years in Milwaukee. If you are only looking at Fielder's OPS, you are ignoring what a great offensive season he had. He even hit over .300 with runners in scoring position overall and with two outs.

As for Cabrera, I expect that at some point his offense will peak. For the last couple of years, everything has fallen into place for him offensivlely. The stats stats don't tell you about the big hits Cabrera has had for the last two seasons. This year he hit .420 and slugged .720 with two outs and runners in scoring position. That was substantially ahead of his career norms. And I don't know that the Tigers will get that out of him again.
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  #55  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Fielder had never been a .300 hitter, although he had come close in the National League, but he hit well over .300 with the Tigers. He didn't have as many home runs playing in a bigger ballpark and didn't have as many RBIs as he had in seasons with the Brewers, but he was hitting behind the league leader in RBIs and home runs. He didn't walk as much, in part because he wasn't being walked intentionally nearly as often, but he did better by getting hits when he wasn't walking and struck out appreciably less than he had been striking out in his last three years in Milwaukee. If you are only looking at Fielder's OPS, you are ignoring what a great offensive season he had. He even hit over .300 with runners in scoring position overall and with two outs.

As for Cabrera, I expect that at some point his offense will peak. For the last couple of years, everything has fallen into place for him offensivlely. The stats stats don't tell you about the big hits Cabrera has had for the last two seasons. This year he hit .420 and slugged .720 with two outs and runners in scoring position. That was substantially ahead of his career norms. And I don't know that the Tigers will get that out of him again.


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  #56  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:59 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Hard to believe Hunter's 5-year deal with the Angels has come and gone already. I wonder how things would have played out for the Sox over the last 5 years if he didn't get that last minute offer from LAA?

I have to tip my hat to the Tigers - they're doing what it takes to make their team a perennial playoff team. I wouldn't know what that's like since the Sox have never been a perennial playoff team. Over the last couple of decades, the Sox have only been good enough to be a "once every 5 years or so" playoff team while averaging around .500 the rest of the time.
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  #57  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:09 AM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Originally Posted by palehozenychicty View Post
You know that people here overvalue this roster and dismiss anyone outside of it. That's most fan bases, though.

Detroit is a solid team. Their young outfielders also get more time to ease into game experience. That helps with their roster depth.

If the management can somehow improve the Sox lineup, then I'll feel better about our chances. I think our pitching staff is good enough to compete. We have enough depth and the experience gained by the younger arms will pay dividends next season.
To me the opposite is true for our fan base. Especially here at WSI where the grass is always greener on the other side mentality reigns supreme. If you ever listened to Chris Rongey's show after a loss, or a shaky win, you'd know that ALL of our players suck.

E.G. Every year our fans think that we're the worst team, or one of the worst teams in MLB, in hitting w/RISP. That we're the worst team in MLB in scoring a runner from 3rd w/less than two out, etc.... Yet, outside of 2011, every year we're pretty much middle of the pack or close to the top in those categories.

I have no problem giving other teams credit when it's due. Does Detroit have talent? Sure. Do they have as many flaws/holes as The White Sox? Yes.
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  #58  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet View Post
I have no problem giving other teams credit when it's due. Does Detroit have talent? Sure. Do they have as many flaws/holes as The White Sox? Yes.
Do the Tigers have flaws/holes? Yes, every team does.

Do they have as many as the Sox? No.
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  #59  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:20 AM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Do the Tigers have flaws/holes? Yes, every team does.

Do they have as many as the Sox? No.
Well, IMO, they still have the worst infield defense in MLB, have no closer, are short another 3 arms in the pen and perhaps a 4th and 5th starter.

I guess it all depends on what people's opinions are of certain players.
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  #60  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:59 AM
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Well, IMO, they still have the worst infield defense in MLB, have no closer, are short another 3 arms in the pen and perhaps a 4th and 5th starter.

I guess it all depends on what people's opinions are of certain players.
The IF defense thing looks pretty overrated now, considering a strength of the Sox was a strong IF defense and that got them a whole 3 wins less than Detroit.

Again, not saying the Tigers don't have their share of problems, but to say they're even with the Sox is crazy. We currently have holes at 2B, 3B, and C. We have major questions at 1B, our everyday DH, and arguably SS and CF, as well.
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