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  #46  
Old 11-10-2012, 05:48 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Outside of a couple months this season, he has been absolutely awful for 2 years and makes $15 million/season. His value is likely next to nothing right now.
We would probably have to pick up 5-7 mil a year, but you don't hit 40 HRs in 2 months. He was almost comeback player of the year. I'm not even opposed to keeping him, but not in the 3 or 4 hole in the lineup. He sees about as many pitches per at bat than anyone else in baseball (and has more value with Youk in the lineup who does the same), a highly underrated aspect of his game.
  #47  
Old 11-10-2012, 05:59 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
We would probably have to pick up 5-7 mil a year, but you don't hit 40 HRs in 2 months. He was almost comeback player of the year. I'm not even opposed to keeping him, but not in the 3 or 4 hole in the lineup. He sees about as many pitches per at bat than anyone else in baseball (and has more value with Youk in the lineup who does the same), a highly underrated aspect of his game.
No, you don't, but he hit 16 in the first 2 months this season. In April he hit .231/.368/.513 and in May .230/.386./590. Those are fine.

After that?

June: .181/.333/.436
July: .211/.311/.478
August: .176/.289/.402
September/October: .200/.302/.378

Those numbers after May are awful, nearly as bad as his 2011.

Could the Sox dump him if they sent back a good chunk of change in the trade? Maybe. Could they get anything of value, any player of note, in return? Doubtful. Teams aren't clamoring to trade for overpaid, mediocre veterans on the decline.

Thus, I think the Sox will keep him, but mostly because they have no real choice in the matter.
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  #48  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:12 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
No, you don't, but he hit 16 in the first 2 months this season. In April he hit .231/.368/.513 and in May .230/.386./590. Those are fine.

After that?

June: .181/.333/.436
July: .211/.311/.478
August: .176/.289/.402
September/October: .200/.302/.378

Those numbers after May are awful, nearly as bad as his 2011.

Could the Sox dump him if they sent back a good chunk of change in the trade? Maybe. Could they get anything of value, any player of note, in return? Doubtful. Teams aren't clamoring to trade for overpaid, mediocre veterans on the decline.

Thus, I think the Sox will keep him, but mostly because they have no real choice in the matter.
I'll give you his Sept. even though he had 2/3 the at bats. With Dunn you don't care about his batting average, its all about HR, RBI, walks, and pitches seen. But his June, July, Aug. wasn't even that bad.

June: 8 HR, 21 RBI, 22 BB
July: 7 HR, 15 RBI, 13 BB
Aug: 7 HR, 15 RBI, 17 BB

Not sure how averaging 7 HR, 15+ RBI and some walks a month makes him complete worthless. And those are the "awful" numbers after May you speak of. If he did that every month he would have 42 HR and 90+ RBI for a season. There IS value there, thats why he was hitting #3 for a first place team for majority of the season.
  #49  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:37 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
I'll give you his Sept. even though he had 2/3 the at bats. With Dunn you don't care about his batting average, its all about HR, RBI, walks, and pitches seen. But his June, July, Aug. wasn't even that bad.

June: 8 HR, 21 RBI, 22 BB
July: 7 HR, 15 RBI, 13 BB
Aug: 7 HR, 15 RBI, 17 BB

Not sure how averaging 7 HR, 15+ RBI and some walks a month makes him complete worthless. And those are the "awful" numbers after May you speak of. If he did that every month he would have 42 HR and 90+ RBI for a season. There IS value there, thats why he was hitting #3 for a first place team for majority of the season.
Just because you play a mediocre player every day doesn't mean his **** shines any brighter. Would you want the Sox to pay Dan Johnson, Luke Scott or Mark Reynolds $15 million/year? Because their numbers are pretty damn similar.
  #50  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:48 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Just because you play a mediocre player every day doesn't mean his **** shines any brighter. Would you want the Sox to pay Dan Johnson, Luke Scott or Mark Reynolds $15 million/year? Because their numbers are pretty damn similar.
Those 3 guys combined for less HR and hardly a better average than Dunn in 2012, as crappy as he was for a good portion of it. You knew what you were getting with him. Enough with this bull**** hyperbole. It's hard to believe that after 2010, the Thome fiasco, and all the bitching and moaning about how Ozzieball and rotating DHs don't work in the American League, this fanbase is complaining about a guy who's done nothing but put up 40 HR and 100 RBI for his entire career, 2011 excepted. He is what he is. No use bitching about it.
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  #51  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:54 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Just because you play a mediocre player every day doesn't mean his **** shines any brighter. Would you want the Sox to pay Dan Johnson, Luke Scott or Mark Reynolds $15 million/year? Because their numbers are pretty damn similar.
Dan Johnson and Luke Scott? Seriously? Neither could, and those are numbers Dunn put up in his "awful" months. You seem to be set on not wanting him back, and I can see why you and a lot of others wouldn't want him back. But, you are grossly undervaluing him. He just turned 33, he has at least a few more 40 HR 100 RBI seasons left, especially in the AL. Now that I think about it, Houston would make some sense because he is from Texas and they could use some power entering the AL.
  #52  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:13 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Those 3 guys combined for less HR and hardly a better average than Dunn in 2012, as crappy as he was for a good portion of it. You knew what you were getting with him. Enough with this bull**** hyperbole. It's hard to believe that after 2010, the Thome fiasco, and all the bitching and moaning about how Ozzieball and rotating DHs don't work in the American League, this fanbase is complaining about a guy who's done nothing but put up 40 HR and 100 RBI for his entire career, 2011 excepted. He is what he is. No use bitching about it.
Dunn has a career line of .240/.370/.499; if the Sox knew they would be getting much less than that, than they would not have given him $60 million over 4 seasons. Johnson has a career slash line of .237/.338/.412; Scott .260/.341/.487; and Reynolds .235/.332/.475. With a career .870 OPS, it is not hyperbole to say that Dunn has seriously underperformed his contract in his time with the White Sox. In two full seasons, he has had just two months with an OPS of at least .800; in those 10 other months, his slash lines look quite similar to that of the few players mentioned.

That said, I wouldn't want the White Sox to trade him this offseason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Dan Johnson and Luke Scott? Seriously? Neither could, and those are numbers Dunn put up in his "awful" months. You seem to be set on not wanting him back, and I can see why you and a lot of others wouldn't want him back. But, you are grossly undervaluing him. He just turned 33, he has at least a few more 40 HR 100 RBI seasons left, especially in the AL. Now that I think about it, Houston would make some sense because he is from Texas and they could use some power entering the AL.
Then, you're misunderstanding me. You advocated trading me by sending out $5-7 million per year on his contract. I think that his poor performance thus far with the White Sox means that, even with sending out that kind of money, the return on a trade would be so low as to be pointless. Dunn could still bounce back to his career numbers, or be mediocre and still put up 40 HRs as he did this past season. I don't think they could anything more than a AAAA player or organization depth in return, and those players are worth a heck of a lot less than the $10-12 million it would cost to send out Dunn in a trade.
  #53  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:31 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Dunn has a career line of .240/.370/.499; if the Sox knew they would be getting much less than that, than they would not have given him $60 million over 4 seasons. Johnson has a career slash line of .237/.338/.412; Scott .260/.341/.487; and Reynolds .235/.332/.475. With a career .870 OPS, it is not hyperbole to say that Dunn has seriously underperformed his contract in his time with the White Sox. In two full seasons, he has had just two months with an OPS of at least .800; in those 10 other months, his slash lines look quite similar to that of the few players mentioned.

That said, I wouldn't want the White Sox to trade him this offseason:



Then, you're misunderstanding me. You advocated trading me by sending out $5-7 million per year on his contract. I think that his poor performance thus far with the White Sox means that, even with sending out that kind of money, the return on a trade would be so low as to be pointless. Dunn could still bounce back to his career numbers, or be mediocre and still put up 40 HRs as he did this past season. I don't think they could anything more than a AAAA player or organization depth in return, and those players are worth a heck of a lot less than the $10-12 million it would cost to send out Dunn in a trade.
The other thing is he really is a DH. He can play the field but every day would be a disaster. That will limit his market. So then you have to find an AL team looking for a DH willing to take his salary. The Yankees are cutting payroll. The Red Sox have Ortiz. The Tigers will not have the DH spot open. Who would take that contract, and give you something useful for him? You are correct, no one. I also agree with you, if you have to pay to get rid of him, keep him, just move him down to 6th or 7th in the line up, at least until he shows he can get back to getting on base like he used to.
  #54  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:52 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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I'm hoping Dunn won't be on the White Sox in 2013. I realize he will be difficult to move but I'm hoping he's gone by Opening Day. Every team seems to have somebody they would like to move off their team. Hopefully we can get one of those players for Dunn. As much as I don't like A Rod, I would rather have him than Dunn. I'm under the impression the White Sox are going to make some moves at the Winter Meetings in December. The sooner Dunn is gone, the better as far as I'm concerned.
  #55  
Old 11-11-2012, 09:30 AM
Milw Milw is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
The other thing is he really is a DH. He can play the field but every day would be a disaster. That will limit his market. So then you have to find an AL team looking for a DH willing to take his salary. The Yankees are cutting payroll. The Red Sox have Ortiz. The Tigers will not have the DH spot open. Who would take that contract, and give you something useful for him? You are correct, no one. I also agree with you, if you have to pay to get rid of him, keep him, just move him down to 6th or 7th in the line up, at least until he shows he can get back to getting on base like he used to.
I dunno, the Phillies went into this season with Jim Thome on their roster. Given that interleague play is now a year-round event, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that an NL team could find a use for Dunn. Whether they'd give up anything of value for him is a different question, of course...
  #56  
Old 11-11-2012, 09:47 AM
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Here's a good column on Dunn's performance over the past two years in comparison to his salary.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...e-is-adam-dunn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzh
It's hard to believe that after 2010, the Thome fiasco, and all the bitching and moaning about how Ozzieball and rotating DHs don't work in the American League, this fanbase is complaining about a guy who's done nothing but put up 40 HR and 100 RBI for his entire career, 2011 excepted.
To be fair, why would the fanbase care about Dunn's accomplishments prior to 2011? He could have been Babe Ruth through 2010, but that has no bearing on what he's done over the last two years or what he'll do in 2013 & 2014. Over the last two years, he hasn't been worth the $26 million he's been paid (really, not even close), and the prognosis does not look good for the next two years at $30 million.
  #57  
Old 11-11-2012, 11:08 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Here's a good column on Dunn's performance over the past two years in comparison to his salary.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...e-is-adam-dunn

To be fair, why would the fanbase care about Dunn's accomplishments prior to 2011? He could have been Babe Ruth through 2010, but that has no bearing on what he's done over the last two years or what he'll do in 2013 & 2014. Over the last two years, he hasn't been worth the $26 million he's been paid (really, not even close), and the prognosis does not look good for the next two years at $30 million.
Thank you.
  #58  
Old 11-11-2012, 11:53 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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I'm hoping Dunn won't be on the White Sox in 2013. I realize he will be difficult to move but I'm hoping he's gone by Opening Day. Every team seems to have somebody they would like to move off their team. Hopefully we can get one of those players for Dunn. As much as I don't like A Rod, I would rather have him than Dunn. I'm under the impression the White Sox are going to make some moves at the Winter Meetings in December. The sooner Dunn is gone, the better as far as I'm concerned.
As hitters in a vacuum, Rodriguez might be preferrable (though I think it's almost a wash). But his contract is several orders of magnitude worse. What the Yankees were thinking when they signed him to that 10-year extension, I have no idea. That might be the single worst contract in sports right now. He has 5 years and $114 million left on his contract, and that's not including career HR milestones* worth up to $30 million. The Yankees are stuck with A-Rod's awful contract; next year alone, they'll be paying Rodriguez almost what the Sox will pay Dunn for the 2 remaining years on his deal ($28 million for A-Rod, $30 million for Dunn).

*$6 million each for hitting 660, 714, 755, tying and topping Bonds.
  #59  
Old 11-11-2012, 12:55 PM
getonbckthr getonbckthr is offline
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I don't know how the guys being rumored to be available score on sabermetrics but isn't Hahn supposed to be a sabermetrics guy where KW was more of an old school eye test kind of guy?
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  #60  
Old 11-11-2012, 01:04 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Gavin has value but it has to be the right trade. I read somewhere a suggestion of Floyd and a prospect for Moustakas. I would be down with that!
lol, I am sure that is a trade K.C is just begging Hahn to make.
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