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  #1  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:56 AM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Default Dick Allen

I noticed the baseball card of Dick Allen on the main page and it made me think about a Suntimes poll of the greatest Whitesox players of alltime, I think he was ranked as the 6th best Whitesox player in franchise history. I always disagreed with that ranking due to he only played 3 years for the Sox but after reading about the card on the main page it says he made the Sox relavent again. I suppose there would be truth to that but I always thought he was disliked by players and fans when he was here.

I look at him alot different nowdays and if you go by saber stats, some say he should be in the Hall of Fame. I personally feel Minoso or Pierce are better candidates for the hall but I can see how there could be a argument. He really did have a historical season in 1972 winning the MVP with a 199 ops+ which is Babe Ruth like numbers. He won a Rookie of the Year in 1964 and ended up with a 55 career WAR which is pretty good for a guy who played only 15 years. Obviously he's hurt by his attitude and playing more than half his career as a first baseman instead of a thirdbaseman.

The Suntimes must have ranked him so high because maybe he did help bring fans back but I still would rank these guys over Allen.

In no order
1. Frank Thomas
2. Paul Konerko....when the poll was done I don't know if he makes my list.
3. Carlton Fisk
4. Harold Baines
5. Luke Appling
6. Ted Lyons
7. Red Faber
8. Nellie Fox
9. Luis Aparicio
10. Minnie Minoso
11. Billy Pierce
12. Joe Jackson
13. Eddie Collins
14. Ozzie Guillen
15. Magglio Ordonez
16. Ray Schalk
17. Robin Ventura
18. Ed Walsh
19. Wilbur Wood
20. Mark Buehrle....same guideline as Konerko
21. A.J. Pierszynski.....ditto
22. Hoyt Wilhelm
23. Doc White
24. Bill Melton
25. Sherm Lollar
26. Jim Landis
27. Eddie Cicotte
28. Joe Horlen
29. Gary Peters
30. Buck Weaver
31. Johnny Mostil
32. Zeke Bonura...close call
33. Chet Lemon
34. Willie Kamm
35. Fielder Jones
36. Thornton Lee
37. Jack McDowell
38. Tommy John


I think all these guys had better overall Whitesox careers than Allen. Did he really make that big of an impact for the Whitesox in 1972-1974? Sorry if theres already a Dick Allen thread on this.

Last edited by chicagowhitesox1; 10-28-2012 at 10:54 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-28-2012, 11:43 AM
DickAllen72 DickAllen72 is offline
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LOL Ozzie Guillen.

Dick Allen was one of the most talented White Sox players ever, had one of, if not the greatest, single White Sox seasons ever in 1972, and should be in the Hall of Fame.
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  #3  
Old 10-28-2012, 11:56 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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He had the greatest season in my lifetime - 1972. Frank had 1 or 2 of that caliber, but I vote for Dick in '72.
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  #4  
Old 10-28-2012, 12:23 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Allen gets an incomplete from me. The guy had one of the greatest White Sox seasons ever in 1972 but for injuries and a mixed up brain quit at the end of 1974. He seemed in interviews to have his head on straight but something happened in 1974 that soured his stay with the Sox. Some say he had a fued with Santo and some say he wasn't happy that his brother Hank got grief and was only on the roster because of him. He could have run for Mayor of Chicago and won, that's how popular he was at the time. If he had finished his career on the Southside, he would be right up there at the top of the list of White Sox greats.
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  #5  
Old 10-28-2012, 12:49 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Chicagowhitesox1:

Start here and read through the six parts, you'll learn everything you need to know about Dick who was as respected as any player who played the game:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/r...ory=11&id=2065

This story talks a lot about how Goose Gossage respected Dick for teaching him how to be a major leaguer:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/r...gory=2&id=4314

Dick was a lot of things but when it came to playing the game and respecting the way it was supposed to be played, there was none better.

Lip

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 10-28-2012 at 05:11 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-28-2012, 12:50 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Nell:

Read my interview with Chuck Tanner. Chuck explained why Dick left. Now because it's Chuck you do take it with a grain of salt, but it is a fact his injuries were killing him physically.

Lip
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2012, 12:50 PM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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The White Sox have had two great hitters in my lifetime, Frank Thomas and Dick Allen. You have ballplayers in the Baseball HOF who weren't as good as Allen. I would like to think somewhere down the line Allen will get into the HOF.
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  #8  
Old 10-28-2012, 01:24 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Dick Allen's 1972 season, in the context of baseball at the time, was one of the greatest seasons in the history of baseball, not just statistcally, but in terms of leading and carrying a successful team. With all the triple crown talk surrounding Cabrera this year, I was reminded that Dick Allen had a shot a the triple crown in 1972. He was leading eventual batting champion Rod Carew in average in early September but fell off as the White Sox continued to fall further behind the A's, also finishing behind Lou Piniela and percentage points ahead of teammate Carlos May.

But that ended up being his only full season with the White Sox. I don't think that ranks him anywhere near Frank Thomas or anywhere near the Hall of Fame.
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2012, 01:50 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Nell:

Read my interview with Chuck Tanner. Chuck explained why Dick left. Now because it's Chuck you do take it with a grain of salt, but it is a fact his injuries were killing him physically.

Lip
Hard to believe these events happened 40 years ago and I don't know how bad Allen was hurting but he did play 3 more un-spectacular years, 2 with the Phillies and his last year with the A's. What's funny is that we had a guy who saved the franchise but by the end of 1975 we needed Bill Veeck to come in and save the franchise.
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  #10  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:59 PM
KyWhiSoxFan KyWhiSoxFan is offline
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Dick Allen is the best player I ever saw play for the Sox. It was only a few years, and that is hard to match Thomas' long career, but every time he came to the plate there was a chance for magic.

He would wield that 40-ounce bat like it was the hammer of Thor and hit these line drives that never got more than 12 feet off the ground and carried over the fence like a frozen rope.

If anyone could hit the scoreboard or light fixtures and set off a series of explosions and short circuits like Roy Hobbs, it was Dick--don't call me Richie--Allen.
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  #11  
Old 10-28-2012, 04:34 PM
BigKlu59 BigKlu59 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Allen gets an incomplete from me. The guy had one of the greatest White Sox seasons ever in 1972 but for injuries and a mixed up brain quit at the end of 1974. He seemed in interviews to have his head on straight but something happened in 1974 that soured his stay with the Sox. Some say he had a fued with Santo and some say he wasn't happy that his brother Hank got grief and was only on the roster because of him. He could have run for Mayor of Chicago and won, that's how popular he was at the time. If he had finished his career on the Southside, he would be right up there at the top of the list of White Sox greats.
That seemed to be Richie's (Dick's) thorn in the flesh... Almost self sabotaging in some respects. He was the Wizz Kid In Philly, only to have have issues just when he was hitting stride, same with the Sox. Tough call with the personal issues. I chalk it up to being so talented that a perception by teammates that he was going thru the motions and an aloofness rubbed some the wrong way.

In both cases he carried both those franchises with little or no support. I agree if he had had a solid 5-7 year or more career with the Sox, he would be in the top 5 of all time. He pulled my heart and head out of the dumps with that 72 season and made me feel proud again to be a Sox fan..

BK59
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2012, 04:45 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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I think he may have had the greatest single season with the Sox but back in 1972 I wouldn't think anyone really knew how great of a season it was. Nobody knew what ops or war was back then. Then again after reading about him here and watching him get ranked as the 6th best Whitesox of alltime, it does make me feel he was appreciated alot more than what I give him credit for. I think part of the reason he gets so much credit is because before him the Sox never had a power hitter as strong as him who put up numbers like him. Bill Melton and Dick Allen were the first homerun champions in Whitesox history and that probably helps his legacy alot.

Albert Belle may be held in the same regard someday. I just don't see how a 2 or 3 year stint can put you as one of the best in a franchise with over 100 years of existence. I doubt the Phillies even have Allen ranked as a top 6 player in franchise history.
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2012, 05:06 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKlu59 View Post
That seemed to be Richie's (Dick's) thorn in the flesh... Almost self sabotaging in some respects. He was the Wizz Kid In Philly, only to have have issues just when he was hitting stride, same with the Sox. Tough call with the personal issues. I chalk it up to being so talented that a perception by teammates that he was going thru the motions and an aloofness rubbed some the wrong way.

In both cases he carried both those franchises with little or no support. I agree if he had had a solid 5-7 year or more career with the Sox, he would be in the top 5 of all time. He pulled my heart and head out of the dumps with that 72 season and made me feel proud again to be a Sox fan..

BK59
The 72 season was great but the 71 season was the one that made me feel good again. After the 56-106 season in 1970, Hemond and Tanner turned the team around improving by 23 games. Melton led the league in HRs, Wilbur Wood had a great year winning 22 games with a 1.91 ERA and Harry Caray in his first year on the Southside made it all sound all so exciting. When we got Allen in a trade in the off-season things were really looking up for 1972.
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2012, 03:34 AM
Falstaff Falstaff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
The White Sox have had two great hitters in my lifetime, Frank Thomas and Dick Allen. You have ballplayers in the Baseball HOF who weren't as good as Allen. I would like to think somewhere down the line Allen will get into the HOF.
Ya I remember Dick Allen used to get the "Jesus Christ Superstar" theme music played when he walked up to hit. In fact, first athlete to get the moniker "Superstar", nowaday that is a throwaway adjective. But Frank Thomas certainly accomplished more in his time.

Would have been nice if they were similar age, they could have traded off
at 1st and DH. ( I can only dream. )
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