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  #46  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:08 PM
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Daver Daver is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post

I'm guessing that if there's anyone out there who thinks the Sox are going to increase the number of teams, sign more scouts or increase the number of minor league players that's probably not going to be happening.

If my guess is true, I'm a little surprised. I just got the impression that Rick was more of a minor league / stat guy type than Kenny.
He is, but he also understands the business of baseball, and increasing money for scouting and player development deducts from the money spent on what pays the bills, White Sox fans will not go through the turnstiles to watch a lengthy rebuilding process. The name of the game is to put asses in the seats at 35th and Shields, and guys playing in Birmingham and Kannapolis are not going to accomplish that goal.
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  #47  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:11 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Gar/Pax part II.
If you mean that the new guy will use more tact in dealing with the people who work for him than the old guy, you may have landed on an appropriate comparison.

And, this could be the other shoe falling in the Kenny/Ozzie matter of just a year ago.
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  #48  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:40 PM
Konerko05 Konerko05 is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
I took it that way. It won't be the first time this has happened and it's gotten oh so tiresome. There aren't as many Sox fans as Cub fans and you're not going to get guaranteed lemming like support from the ones you have. So just deal with that and do your best to build good teams.
Any time Williams mentions the word "fans," the same people keep whining that he's blaming them.

How many of these times have you interpreted his comments as so without him actually blaming the fans?

The Sox attendance this year was awful for a team in first place for the majority of the season. It doesn't matter who is to blame, and what the reasons were behind it. He is stating a fact. Less fans in stadium does take away an energy that is simply impossible for 15,000 die hards to create. He then states this an issue that needed to be addressed, and now it is being addressed.

What is the problem here? Should he act like everything is perfectly fine so he doesn't hurt some fans' feelings?
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  #49  
Old 10-26-2012, 11:51 PM
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RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Hahn says now he probably will not be able to retain Peavy or AJ. He better have a great plan or it's going to be a long year. I'm pretty sure they will let Youk go as well; leaving a huge hole at 3B.I'm holding out hope for the best.
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  #50  
Old 10-27-2012, 12:30 AM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Originally Posted by Konerko05 View Post
Any time Williams mentions the word "fans," the same people keep whining that he's blaming them.

How many of these times have you interpreted his comments as so without him actually blaming the fans?

The Sox attendance this year was awful for a team in first place for the majority of the season. It doesn't matter who is to blame, and what the reasons were behind it. He is stating a fact. Less fans in stadium does take away an energy that is simply impossible for 15,000 die hards to create. He then states this an issue that needed to be addressed, and now it is being addressed.

What is the problem here? Should he act like everything is perfectly fine so he doesn't hurt some fans' feelings?
And yet ironically the Rays continue to win games. And the Reds don't exactly have a rabid fan base either yet they somehow won the NL central over fan powerhouses like the Cardinals and Cubs.

And somehow teams like the Red Sox and Cubs didn't do anything even with that extra energy. If a bunch of professional players being paid millions of dollars need an extra boost to play better, well, we are in trouble then.
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  #51  
Old 10-27-2012, 12:46 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Mr. Jinx:

You do make some good points in your post.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...0,192390.story

Lip
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  #52  
Old 10-27-2012, 01:00 AM
Konerko05 Konerko05 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
And yet ironically the Rays continue to win games. And the Reds don't exactly have a rabid fan base either yet they somehow won the NL central over fan powerhouses like the Cardinals and Cubs.

And somehow teams like the Red Sox and Cubs didn't do anything even with that extra energy. If a bunch of professional players being paid millions of dollars need an extra boost to play better, well, we are in trouble then.
Please show me where I said it is impossible for a team to win without a rabid fan base?

Please show me where Williams said it is impossible to win without a rabid fan base?

Please show me where I said extra energy will guarantee a playoff birth?

Please show me where Williams said extra energy will guarantee a playoff birth?

The article simply says, without even a quote from Williams, that Williams thought an energetic crowd could add some life to a tired team towards the end of the season.

The Williams quote says he wanted to get a level of energy found in some other big market stadiums. What is wrong with that? Why wouldn't he want that? Why wouldn't the players want that?

No one is saying that was the reason the White Sox fell short. But to act like the players are robots and will show no response whatsoever to a packed house going crazy for them on a September night is a little silly. I'm sure Williams, as a former player and someone who has been in a baseball stadium for the majority of his life, understands the effect the fans can have on a given night. Believe me, the players did not want to play in front of 15,000 while fighting for first place during the last few weeks of the season. None of the players are going to say it made them play worse, or that they needed the fans there to win, but I'm sure they were disappointed. Who knows, maybe it would have helped.

Last edited by Konerko05; 10-27-2012 at 01:14 AM.
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  #53  
Old 10-27-2012, 01:05 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by Konerko05 View Post
But to act like the players are robots and will show no response whatsoever to a packed house going crazy for them on a Sempter night is a little silly.
Is Sempter just before Ocular?
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  #54  
Old 10-27-2012, 01:13 AM
Konerko05 Konerko05 is offline
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Is Sempter just before Ocular?
You got me.
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  #55  
Old 10-27-2012, 08:52 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Konerko05 View Post

Any time Williams mentions the word "fans," the same people keep whining that he's blaming them.

How many of these times have you interpreted his comments as so without him actually blaming the fans?

The Sox attendance this year was awful for a team in first place for the majority of the season. It doesn't matter who is to blame, and what the reasons were behind it. He is stating a fact. Less fans in stadium does take away an energy that is simply impossible for 15,000 die hards to create. He then states this an issue that needed to be addressed, and now it is being addressed.

What is the problem here? Should he act like everything is perfectly fine so he doesn't hurt some fans' feelings?
It's the context.

That quote came after him stating his disappointment that the Sox couldn't turn all the days of them being in first place into more division titles. Meaning not only this season...

I like what I hear from Hahn, except on one point. Tyler Flowers should not be considered as an everyday catcher. He strikes out at an even larger rate than Viciedo and Dunn - we don't need another low average, all or nothing bat in the lineup, we have one too many of those now.

If A.J. cant be brought back, I hope the Sox can at least add a less expensive platoon catcher who can handle a bat.
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  #56  
Old 10-27-2012, 10:49 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Russ:

I saw where the Mariners declined the option on Olivo a few days ago, so he is out there again. Remember Kenny had opened negotiations with his agent the last time A.J. was a free agent.

Lip
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  #57  
Old 10-27-2012, 10:56 AM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post

You don't think Gar is lightyears better as a GM than Pax?
He is. Don't get me wrong. I just wish that new blood was coming into management. I'm willing to see Hahn's power reach.
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  #58  
Old 10-27-2012, 11:08 AM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
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Originally Posted by Daver View Post

He is, but he also understands the business of baseball, and increasing money for scouting and player development deducts from the money spent on what pays the bills, White Sox fans will not go through the turnstiles to watch a lengthy rebuilding process. The name of the game is to put asses in the seats at 35th and Shields, and guys playing in Birmingham and Kannapolis are not going to accomplish that goal.
They aren't going to watch a surprise contender either, so what's the difference? The team isn't getting enough talent on the position level to be in the playoffs.
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  #59  
Old 10-27-2012, 11:12 AM
tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Kenny goes upstairs blaming the fans again. So predictable.

Hmmm. Maybe the reason we couldn't finish the deal could have something to do with poor talent evaluation (like the dollars wasted on Fukudome) and Jerry not wanting to spend?
Fukudome wasn't good, but he also was a pretty minimal salary.
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  #60  
Old 10-27-2012, 12:21 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konerko05 View Post
Any time Williams mentions the word "fans," the same people keep whining that he's blaming them.

How many of these times have you interpreted his comments as so without him actually blaming the fans?

The Sox attendance this year was awful for a team in first place for the majority of the season. It doesn't matter who is to blame, and what the reasons were behind it. He is stating a fact. Less fans in stadium does take away an energy that is simply impossible for 15,000 die hards to create. He then states this an issue that needed to be addressed, and now it is being addressed.

What is the problem here? Should he act like everything is perfectly fine so he doesn't hurt some fans' feelings?
I don't disagree with you. I think attendance was very disappointing this year. Why add to an already bad situation? This ownership group has a long history of antipathy or perceived antipathy towards the fan base. So just shut up about low attendace, make nice, and do what you can to get more people into the park. The recent announced decrease in the price of some tickets is a start. There will always be the negative comparison to the team on the north side. They just have a lot more fans than we do locally, and especially nationally. The current ownership contributed to this imbalance. Anyway, to end this little rant, I don't wish to be lectured about attendance anymore. Let it go Sox management.
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