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  #46  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:31 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
First question (and I say this with a straight face): Does anyone really expect us to contend for the division next year?

If yes, then go for broke. Sign Hamilton. Go get a starting catcher not named Flowers. Get a starting third-baseman not named Morel. Go get Greinke or Marcum or Dempster or whoever to round out the rotation. (Note: I'm not in any way endorsing this course of action.)

If no, gut the team. Do it and get it over with. Everything must go. Begin the PR war early and blame everything on the fan base not supporting the team.

I'd say you definitely go with option one. Actually they should have started at and after the trade dead line this year. Overpaying or taking on some bad contracts was the way to go to get the needed resources, to get in the playoffs. Now since that opportunity has passed, next year they should go balls out. Detroit should be tougher and the north side team should still be in disarray. Opportunities to build a fan base will be more difficult when the other Chicago team starts to progress. The time is now.
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  #47  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:09 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
First question (and I say this with a straight face): Does anyone really expect us to contend for the division next year?

If yes, then go for broke. Sign Hamilton.
He's going to want one of those 5+ year deals at over $20 mill per. I just can't see tying 25% of the payroll to him, going for it or not. And honestly, he's somewhat injury prone, somewhat unstable, and, imo, kind of lazy.
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  #48  
Old 10-13-2012, 10:02 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Noneck:

You could make the case strictly from a baseball standpoint to go either way, "go for it" (again) or "blow it up."

But unfortunately with the White Sox it's never that cut and dried. There are simply to many other factors that are involved.

My guess is that unless something completely off the wall goes down you're going to see the same approach, "rebuild and contend" at the same time philosophy.

History has showed over the past decade that hasn't worked very well. Good enough to honestly compete in a weak division, good enough to at least have a winning season but not good enough to seriously contend for a championship.

Lip
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  #49  
Old 10-13-2012, 10:45 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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I don't think you even consider signing Youk unless the medical people agree. He has had 2 straight sub-par years after being a very good player. If he is deemed healthy, I think you set a price and try and get him. But the decision needs to be based on his current medical condition.
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  #50  
Old 10-13-2012, 11:33 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Lip,


I think pulling the wool over the sheep's eyes has run its course. If they do sos, its not going to fly with the fans, they have seen that too many times already. I'm too old for a rebuild but I do understand if they do it but not now.
This is a golden opportunity to get fans considering whats going with the other chicago club. Every year the window is closing more and more but if they are planning on selling in the near future, then what they are doing makes sense.
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  #51  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:16 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
So, you're the one.

I simply don't believe people who say this. I believe that you'd be calling for people's firing before the first 90 loss season ended.
I know Morel is unpopular because he was horrible this year with his bad back and all, but when he was healthy the year before he showed some promise. Not saying he is better than Youk at all, just think the writing may be on the wall with Youk leaving. Your probably right about my turning the roster over comment but man this is getting old, watching postseason ball and no Sox. Seems like most the league has made an appearance since 08.
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  #52  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:17 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by BleacherBandit View Post
This team has been fielding poorly projected teams for the last three-to-four years. Why is everyone adverse to the idea of establishing an admirable farm-system? I've never seen that in my lifetime.
Just because you don't want to see the Sox go into a death spiral at the MLB level doesn't mean you're not adverse to seeing them build up some decent prospects in-house. It's not an all-or-none question. But when push comes to shove, what is more important to fans? The MLB team or the farm system? I'd be wary of any fan that answered for the latter over the former.
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  #53  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:21 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Just because you don't want to see the Sox go into a death spiral at the MLB level doesn't mean you're not adverse to seeing them build up some decent prospects in-house. It's not an all-or-none question. But when push comes to shove, what is more important to fans? The MLB team or the farm system? I'd be wary of any fan that answered for the latter over the former.
They were projected to go to the WS by a few and the playoffs by most last year.
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  #54  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:42 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Just because you don't want to see the Sox go into a death spiral at the MLB level doesn't mean you're not adverse to seeing them build up some decent prospects in-house. It's not an all-or-none question. But when push comes to shove, what is more important to fans? The MLB team or the farm system? I'd be wary of any fan that answered for the latter over the former.
I'd like to add that a highly-regarded farm system doesn't necessarily translate to success at the MLB level. A friend of mine grew up in the Kansas City area and is a Royals fan. He was just telling me the other day he's sick of hearing about all these great prospects Kansas City supposedly has. He's been hearing about a great farm system for six or seven years. Meanwhile, he's still got an irrelevant, 90-loss team to follow at the big-league level.

I know we have some fans here who think the Royals are good because they beat up on the Sox. Trust me, the Royals are terrible. Ask a Kansas City fan sometime how that "great farm system" is working out for them.

Folks who are wanting a full rebuild need to be careful what you wish for. It's remarkable to me that anyone living in Chicago would call for the Sox to do such a thing. We all see the horrors that are going on at Wrigley, right? I don't want to go through that. I just don't. I'd much rather tolerate the frustrations that go along with an 85-win season than go through a rebuild while being promised a future that may never come.
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  #55  
Old 10-13-2012, 01:03 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is offline
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Truth be told, I'm not sure which one I would rather have.
Spinning your wheels and having consistent 77-86 win seasons with not much to show for it can be fairly frustrating in its own right.
If done improperly, a total rebuild would be a complete bleeping disaster for this franchise, especially when its hard enough to draw fans. They looked like they got some things right in recent years with drafts and Latin signings, but the real challenge awaits in the higher levels. There is still much work to do to getting a respectable minor-league system. If there's anything recent years have taught me it's that you can't depend on all young guys or all vets, there has to be a proper blend.
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  #56  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:00 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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I'm very much in favor of building a stronger farm system. Of course it doesn't mean I think that alone is a guarantee of long term future success. I just believe in balance and versatility. I mean what is so hard to understand? Talent wins, and having some talent on the farm will help. Of course you must not ignore other avenues like shrewd trading and smart free agent acquisitions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxSpeed22 View Post
If there's anything recent years have taught me it's that you can't depend on all young guys or all vets, there has to be a proper blend.
I completely agree.

Last edited by SI1020; 10-13-2012 at 02:05 PM.
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  #57  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:42 PM
soxtalker soxtalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
First question (and I say this with a straight face): Does anyone really expect us to contend for the division next year?

If yes, then go for broke. Sign Hamilton. Go get a starting catcher not named Flowers. Get a starting third-baseman not named Morel. Go get Greinke or Marcum or Dempster or whoever to round out the rotation. (Note: I'm not in any way endorsing this course of action.)

If no, gut the team. Do it and get it over with. Everything must go. Begin the PR war early and blame everything on the fan base not supporting the team.

Of course we will probably just shrug our shoulders and try to do both and end up where we were this year.

I think I've reached the point of complete indifference. I'll likely go to the same number of games as I did this past season so it really doesn't matter what strategy the club decides on to me.
A variation of this question seems to come up almost yearly (probably more frequently). I've often leaned toward the second option, though the majority on the board usually seem to prefer the first. Neither is a guarantee of success.

But my question here is whether it is even possible to do the "blow it up" route. The Sox have a lot of money committed next year, and many of those contracts aren't movable without taking significant losses.
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  #58  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:11 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Again...

2005 Podsednik - .290 AVG, .351 OBP, 59 steals

De Aza - .281 AVG, .349 OBP, 26 steals: and he was a much less effective hitter and baserunner after the all-star break.

Just because of those 9 homers inflating his OPS, you'll never convince me that De Aza is a better leadoff hitter than Pods was.

Not saying I want to dump DeAza in the least, but he's an above average leadoff hitter, and IMO would be a better option in the #2 spot had we a prototypical leadoff guy and a top stolen base threat.
DeAza is a far superior ball player in my eyes than Podsednik. DeAza's a better hitter and a better defender. How many guys out there are going to steal 59 bases?
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  #59  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:48 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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I don't get this rebuild stuff. This year was supposed to a bit of a rebuild, and quite frankly, we've seen about 8 or so young pitchers establish themselves as legitimate major league pitchers. That seems like success to me. I like the OF we've got, I like our DP combo, and I like Flowers behind the plate. He does a good job behind the plate and he showed the more regular at bats he gets, the more dangerous he becomes. Viciedo has just scratched the surface IMO, in the next couple years I see him establishing himself as legitimate middle order hitter. The rotation for next year has some excellent young parts in Sale, Quintana and Santiago. We should be thrilled to have those guys emerge like they did this year! When have three young guys emerged like this in one year? Floyd does the job as a bottom of the rotation innings eater, not great but not the worst as long we've got another option to bump him to the 5th spot. So it seems the question is Konerko, Dunn, and 3b. Those bats all died down the stretch, but let's face it, Konerko is getting old and the wrist problems keep reemerging, Youk is getting old, and Dunn, while dangerous, is really not that good of a hitter. Doesn't mean we need a complete rebuild, just a couple moves and a shot in the arm. If the Sox can work something out with Peavy, I'd have no problem going with the arms we have right now. Just get a couple of bats, say goodbye to Youk and work it out so Konerko can play about 120 games a year to keep him fresh. I'd like to see the Sox move Dunn and replace him with a more consistent hitter, and pick up another left handed bat for the bench worthy of about 40 or 50 starts at 1b as well as play some other positions. Who those guys might be, I don't know, but I think this team just needs a couple good moves.
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  #60  
Old 10-13-2012, 04:19 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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I want a farm system like that of the Cardinals and Braves. Those organizations consistently develop position players who can field well and hit at the MLB level.
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