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  #106  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:24 AM
AZChiSoxFan AZChiSoxFan is offline
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Originally Posted by tony1972 View Post
I like the current ownership. At least they listen to the fans and make changes.

(1) Renovating the Upper Deck
(2) Always trying for players to help in a pennant push
(3) Building Bacardi at the Park

A few things the Sox could change...

(1) Limiting Upper Deck ticket holders to the Upper Deck. I've been to many ballparks and the Sox are the only team I know that does this. Of course..if you buy a ticket for the Upper Deck..you should not be able to sit in the lower deck. However..there is no reason you should not be able to access the concourse of the Lower Deck. To me..this would be like shutting off the streets of the Gold Coast to anyone who does not live there. If you don't live in the Gold Coast..you have no right to enter one of the homes there..but you certainly have the right to see the neighborhood. That is how a lot of fans feel about the Upper Deck policy. The haves and have nots. Same thing goes for the private parties on the fan deck. I bought a friend to his first Sox game..we were not allowed to enter Fundamentals or the Fan Deck (private party). He asks me "maybe they should put signs for areas we can go to?". It left a potential newcomer to Sox future Sox games with a bad taste in his mouth. How much money did the Sox make with closing off the fan deck for a private party..but how many fans may not go back because they were restricted to yet another area of the ballpark?

One of the nice advantages the Cell always had over Wrigley was the spaciousness and the fact you could wander around the park and see different areas. That's what I always loved most about going to Sox games. Even Cubs fans used to tell me this. However..each year..it seems another area that was open to all fans has now been closed off for a small group. I can say it has decreased the amount of games I attend each year. Why are the Sox removing an advantage they once had over Wrigley?
I totally agree with your last point. You can still have ushers at the top of walkways for the lower level seats, that check for ticket stubs religiously, to make sure that only people with LL seats are sitting there. But to not even allow people to walk around on the LL is just over the top.

For me, the bottom line is this. Certain owners are known as people who actually like their fans and want to get more of them to come and buy their product. I don't view JR as one of those guys.
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  #107  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:45 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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AZ:

That's an interesting viewpoint. Do you think than that JR is satisfied with drawing what he does? If so, than they must not be losing money.

Lip
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  #108  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:29 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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AZ:

That's an interesting viewpoint. Do you think than that JR is satisfied with drawing what he does? If so, than they must not be losing money.

Lip

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  #109  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:17 PM
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And one more thing regarding attendance, the traffic, especially during the week, is killing them. I live in the Northern burbs, and it could take 90 minutes-2 hours to get to the Cell. The traffic is too much. As a result, I mainly go to the games on the weekends. Other North Side Sox fans (yes, we exist) have the same lament. I've told Brooks Boyer that is a major problem. Not sure the Sox can do anything about that."

Lip
I personally agree on this one. Before I moved, the time involved in a trip to 35th and Shields was a major consideration for me in attending a game versus watching it on TV. There was no good way to get there from Wheaton; it was a long, miserable, stop and go, frustrating trip every time.
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  #110  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
And one more thing regarding attendance, the traffic, especially during the week, is killing them. I live in the Northern burbs, and it could take 90 minutes-2 hours to get to the Cell. The traffic is too much. As a result, I mainly go to the games on the weekends. Other North Side Sox fans (yes, we exist) have the same lament. I've told Brooks Boyer that is a major problem. Not sure the Sox can do anything about that."

Lip
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
I personally agree on this one. Before I moved, the time involved in a trip to 35th and Shields was a major consideration for me in attending a game versus watching it on TV. There was no good way to get there from Wheaton; it was a long, miserable, stop and go, frustrating trip every time.
This is true for the Sox as well as the other teams in Chicago. The traffic during the PM Rush Hour is a major pain if you're trying to get to the ballpark by 7:00 if you're coming in from the suburbs. I suppose the Bears get a break because there usually isn't much traffic on Sunday mornings, but getting to a Monday night game by car is a major test of your inner peace. I work downtown, so getting to a Sox game or a game at the UC during the week isn't difficult, but if I worked in the suburbs, I would be at a lot less games.
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  #111  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
This is true for the Sox as well as the other teams in Chicago. The traffic during the PM Rush Hour is a major pain if you're trying to get to the ballpark by 7:00 if you're coming in from the suburbs. I suppose the Bears get a break because there usually isn't much traffic on Sunday mornings, but getting to a Monday night game by car is a major test of your inner peace. I work downtown, so getting to a Sox game or a game at the UC during the week isn't difficult, but if I worked in the suburbs, I would be at a lot less games.
The traffic is a nightmare, I'll admit that, but somehow the other team is able to overcome it despite being nowhere near an expressway and without any convenient parking so... I don't buy it completely.
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  #112  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:41 PM
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The traffic is a nightmare, I'll admit that, but somehow the other team is able to overcome it despite being nowhere near an expressway and without any convenient parking so... I don't buy it completely.
Yeah, I can't explain that. I never went to Wrigley as an adult, and when I was a kid it was on a school bus as my reward for being a patrol boy. A free day out of school was worth spending it at Wrigley. So, I can only imagine how much of a hassle it must have been, although I always got off the Stevenson at Ashland at took surface streets to 35th and Shields, but that's probably not as bad as taking surface streets to Wrigley from the Eisenhower.
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  #113  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:47 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
I personally agree on this one. Before I moved, the time involved in a trip to 35th and Shields was a major consideration for me in attending a game versus watching it on TV. There was no good way to get there from Wheaton; it was a long, miserable, stop and go, frustrating trip every time.
We lived in Wheaton also and the trek down Roosevelt Rd to get to the Ike was a pain, the alternative was to go out of the way down to I-88 and I never liked going out of the way.
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  #114  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:59 PM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
I live in the Northern burbs, and it could take 90 minutes-2 hours to get to the Cell. The traffic is too much. As a result, I mainly go to the games on the weekends. Other North Side Sox fans (yes, we exist) have the same lament. I've told Brooks Boyer that is a major problem. Not sure the Sox can do anything about that."

Lip
This may be a stupid question, but don't you live in Idaho?
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  #115  
Old 10-05-2012, 03:00 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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This may be a stupid question, but don't you live in Idaho?
He was quoting Ed Sherman.
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  #116  
Old 10-05-2012, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
We lived in Wheaton also and the trek down Roosevelt Rd to get to the Ike was a pain, the alternative was to go out of the way down to I-88 and I never liked going out of the way.
I stopped going that way. I'd go south and east, usually through Darien, and take the Stevenson in to Ashland. Not much better, heck maybe worse, I don't know, but I avoided the Ryan and was better able to get in to the back parking lots on 37th that way.
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  #117  
Old 10-05-2012, 03:22 PM
KenBerryGrab KenBerryGrab is offline
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tony1972,

You talked about not being able to get into Fundamentals. That probably was because you did not have a kid with you, and that restriction makes perfect sense.
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  #118  
Old 10-05-2012, 04:13 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Ed Sherman weighs in on the Sox attendance issues:

"Regarding attendance. The Sox simply have not been an exciting team to watch. They hit a solo homer every now and then, but it is a momentary blip. Again, that stat: 67 games where they score three runs or less. That's not exciting baseball.

Who was their last high-average hitter at the top of the order? Who was their last guy to contend for the batting crown?

And who was their last true superstar player?

With the exception of Konerko in 2010, who still flew way under the radar, the Sox haven't had a superstar since Frank Thomas and even that lasted only a few years before he turned off the fans. It would be nice to get a Mike Trout in here one of these days.

Only one playoff appearance since 2005. Only 1 playoff victory. That says it all. Forget about the Cubs. It's all about that ballpark. You need to win consistently to attract fans. The Sox haven't done that. Even when they contended this year, I don't think fans felt they could pull it off.

And one more thing regarding attendance, the traffic, especially during the week, is killing them. I live in the Northern burbs, and it could take 90 minutes-2 hours to get to the Cell. The traffic is too much. As a result, I mainly go to the games on the weekends. Other North Side Sox fans (yes, we exist) have the same lament. I've told Brooks Boyer that is a major problem. Not sure the Sox can do anything about that."

Lip
Excellent points. I hadn't thought about the excitement/superstar theory. I can see it being a factor. Not the sole factor, but one of many.

Last playoff appearance was in 4 years ago and attendance has plummeted since then with season after season of disappointments plus a 2011-12 offseason where Sox management didn't exactly stoke promises of fielding a contender. The simple reality is that the Sox weren't going to suddenly reverse that over the course of a few months this season. This is as plain as day to me, but many people seem to want to ignore the fact that things work this way (maybe because it goes against their "Sox fans won't support their team" narrative).

Another problem is that there's apparently not much to look forward to for Sox fans right now. No promising prospects to entice fans (even if falsely) that more excitement is on the way. NO, no one is saying "hey, lets go to more Sox games because there's a ton of talent in Birmingham!" but I think it is a factor in that fans know that there's no one ready to step in next year and that it'll probably be more of the same band-aid fixes. The problem is that KW's way of running the team is to throw things together on the fly for attempted success and not have much organizational depth to either fill roster holes or trade for top-notch veterans or to have a team that makes the playoffs in successive seasons. This is good enough for a team that wins about 78-84 games year after year with a "surprise" playoff team every 5 years or so. But, those successful seasons are always fleeting and this is simply not enough to build up a bigger fan base for this team.

As Lip likes to point out, the Sox are the only of the original 16 teams to not make the playoffs in successive seasons. The Tigers just did it for the first time in decades. We'll have to wait until 2014...and probably longer for that to happen here.

The traffic issue is an interesting point. I'm sure it doesn't help for weeknight games.

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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
The traffic is a nightmare, I'll admit that, but somehow the other team is able to overcome it despite being nowhere near an expressway and without any convenient parking so... I don't buy it completely.
Good question, but the Cubs have completely different factors going in their favor:
- much larger overall fan base
- huge concentration of affluent young people living by their park
- people who will go there more as Wrigley Field fans
- tourist crowd

I'm sure there are many Cubs fans who go to less games because traffic sucks for them too, but for every one of those fans, there are others from that list above to go to those games.

Someone might ask why traffic isn't a factor for other teams...maybe the Angels are a good example. I dunno. Each team has it's own unique circumstances. Maybe they can absorb the traffic problem because of other things going in their favor.
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  #119  
Old 10-08-2012, 07:05 PM
tony1972 tony1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by AZChiSoxFan View Post
I totally agree with your last point. You can still have ushers at the top of walkways for the lower level seats, that check for ticket stubs religiously, to make sure that only people with LL seats are sitting there. But to not even allow people to walk around on the LL is just over the top.

For me, the bottom line is this. Certain owners are known as people who actually like their fans and want to get more of them to come and buy their product. I don't view JR as one of those guys.
This is the point I'm trying to make.. You make a little bit of extra dollars by shutting an area off for a small group. However..you may lose future business by those who were rubbed the wrong way by this practice. The same with the 500 level policy. Maybe someone who would have paid $20 for an Upper Deck ticket is forced to spend an extra $10 now because they really prefer the lower bowl. However..for every person that does that..there are probably 2 or 3 that would have bought an UD ticket in the past and went to the lower bowl concourse..that just no longer bothers buying that ticket in the 1st place. Pre UD policy I went to about 15 Upper Deck games a year and about 3 Lower Bowl games a year. Now I go to about 2 Upper Deck games a year and 4 Lower Bowl games a year. The policy has not made me buy more lower bowl tickets..but has actually made me buy less UD tickets and go to less games overall.

The Sox can be very fan friendly...but then they will put very foolish rules in place that cancels out all goodwill such as the Upper Deck policy and shutting off areas to the park for private parties. Unfortunately..fans don't necessarily remember the good things the Sox do..but will remember the time they went to a game..or bought a friend to a game for the first time, spent a small fortune and then ran into a restricted area and felt shut out. I think the Sox should review the UD policy they have. I'm not the only fan who goes to less UD games and less games overall since this policy took effect.
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  #120  
Old 10-08-2012, 07:23 PM
doogiec doogiec is offline
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FWIW on the upper deck issue, I had several conversations with my season ticket rep around the time the policy was changed to limit access to the lower deck. In general, I was complaining that during crowded games bathroom lines downstairs could be a couple of innings long, and the same with concession lines. There had been cases where I went to the upper deck to use the bathroom and buy food, which seemed ridiculous to me.

It had become a common practice to buy an upper deck ticket and watch the game from the concourse. The concourse facilities in the lower deck were not designed to handle that many people.

My season ticket rep told me that this was the number one season ticket holder complaint for the last couple of years, and they were going to address it. The policy was changed shortly after.

I have no problem with everyone having access to the lower deck. But the open design of the concourse encourages people to hang out and watch the game, which is somewhat unique to USCF. If they leave it open to everyone, they need to increase the facilities downstairs, or figure out a way to encourage people not to hang out and watch the entire game down there. People sneaking into the seats isn't the real problem. People paying more money to sit downstairs and not having access to what they paid for is.
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