White Sox Interactive Forums
What's The Score?

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > What's The Score?
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-04-2012, 11:46 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chubbuck, Idaho
Posts: 26,378
Default Look At Cubs Rebuilding Efforts...

Surprisingly (given the author's allegences) not that positive.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/15548...red-flags.html

Lip
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:17 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lincoln Sq./North Cntr.
Posts: 4,611
Default

It's tough to rebuild when you don't have the pieces. It's even tougher with the new draft/foreign players money restrictions rules in place.

People will say that the Cubs are going about this the so called right way. But to me, without the ability to pay over slot, and a mediocre -- at best -- farm system, this team will have to lose 90+ games a year for about 5 or 6 more years before they have enough homegrown cornerstones. And that's if they do an outstanding job developing players at the minor league level.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:41 PM
DumpJerry's Avatar
DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
Tom Feargal Hagen
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The hearts and minds of Sox fans on 10-26-05
Posts: 25,891
Default

He was on Mulley & Hanley this morning talking about it. He was quite the dark cloud. If I was a Cub fan listening to him, I would have swallowed the Cyanide Pill.

Kenny said we were rebuilding this year, too. We finished 24 games ahead of the sCrUBS.
__________________

All hail The Rick
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:17 PM
DeadMoney DeadMoney is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,512
Default

Things in baseball are strange. Oakland and Baltimore sure showed us that this season. It's a sport that's as much about confidence and approach as it is about talent.

Some teams take longer to 'figure it out' (Tampa, Washington), whereas others have transformations that nearly no one expected (Oakland, Baltimore) - and it seems to occur overnight. There's obviously no 'formula' or correct way to do things. Theo's approach has worked before (and it'll work again - somewhere, someday), but who knows how quickly it'll come together again in Chicago.

To Cubs fan friends, I've been quite the dark cloud all season, but have recently changed my tune. My point all season was that even if the Cubs do turn it around, at the very least the Nationals/Reds/Pirates/Cardinals/Braves all have young cores (or solid prospects that are around the corner) that aren't going to be easy to compete with in the NL. Combine that with a Dodgers ownership group that's ready to throw piles of money around and a Phillies group that's nothing to sneeze at, and the outlook looks bleak. But, with what just happened in Oakland; with what happened in Colorado a few years ago; with what happens in baseball, you can never say never. Oakland lost 88 games last year, then traded Cahill and Gio and Bailey and came back with a cast on virtual nobodies and rookies to win 94 games (granted, some of the returns for those trades have been huge contributors this season). If the Cubs find teams that value players like Castro or Samardzija or Russell or Marmol (or some other guy who comes up next year and has success), you never know how quickly this thing can turn.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-05-2012, 05:21 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Valley Of The Malls
Posts: 7,537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Surprisingly (given the author's allegences) not that positive.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/15548...red-flags.html

Lip
Interesting article. I agree:

Quote:
I still don't understand why the only approach to the Cubbies by Epstein was a total gut job. With the resources at Epstein's disposal - one of the richest teams and owners in MLB, he couldn't have produced a rebuild AND a (potential) winning team this season?

And what's the timetable on this current Cubbie rebuild? 3 years? 5 years? If they don't win a World Series by then, what? - DrCrawdad 8/1/2012


Quote:
This season has been successful for the Cubs in the long term plan. Do you agree with that? - Coopaloopa 8/14/2012
I disagreed then with Coopaloopa and apparently the Sun-Times writer does to.
__________________

DrCrawdad
"In time you can turn these obsessions into careers...Hurry Down Doomsday the bugs are taking over." - Elvis Costello
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:15 AM
mzh mzh is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,985
Default

The key to rebuilding is that you need to have at least one franchise-changer come out of the system from within, and drafting in that way is a total crapshoot. That's what would scare me if I were a Cubs fan- Tampa Bay went through 9 awful seasons, only twice picking below 6 overall, before they landed Evan Longoria and David Price in consecutive years. How much losing will it take before the Cubs find their guy like that?
__________________
Obligatory Attendance Record:
3-3
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:18 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Highland
Posts: 1,950
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
He was on Mulley & Hanley this morning talking about it. He was quite the dark cloud. If I was a Cub fan listening to him, I would have swallowed the Cyanide Pill.

Kenny said we were rebuilding this year, too. We finished 24 games ahead of the sCrUBS.

I have nothing against rebuilding - I just don't think a team has to be stripped to its bare bones to do it. If I were a Cub fan, I'd decide this team isn't worth a Cyanide Pill and it isn't worth supporting. The team has had 45 losing seasons with 21 of those with 90 losses or more since their last World Series appearance in 1945. They have done enough rebuilding.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:23 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oswego, Illinois
Posts: 737
Default The Bad Guys On The Northside

Bill Veeck once said "The future is now, five year plans usually lead to new five year plans".I keep hearing they're saving their money to start up their own TV station similar to what the Yankees have. Needless to say I wish them the worse in everything they do.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:59 AM
Red Barchetta Red Barchetta is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadMoney View Post
Things in baseball are strange. Oakland and Baltimore sure showed us that this season. It's a sport that's as much about confidence and approach as it is about talent.

Some teams take longer to 'figure it out' (Tampa, Washington), whereas others have transformations that nearly no one expected (Oakland, Baltimore) - and it seems to occur overnight. There's obviously no 'formula' or correct way to do things. Theo's approach has worked before (and it'll work again - somewhere, someday), but who knows how quickly it'll come together again in Chicago.

To Cubs fan friends, I've been quite the dark cloud all season, but have recently changed my tune. My point all season was that even if the Cubs do turn it around, at the very least the Nationals/Reds/Pirates/Cardinals/Braves all have young cores (or solid prospects that are around the corner) that aren't going to be easy to compete with in the NL. Combine that with a Dodgers ownership group that's ready to throw piles of money around and a Phillies group that's nothing to sneeze at, and the outlook looks bleak. But, with what just happened in Oakland; with what happened in Colorado a few years ago; with what happens in baseball, you can never say never. Oakland lost 88 games last year, then traded Cahill and Gio and Bailey and came back with a cast on virtual nobodies and rookies to win 94 games (granted, some of the returns for those trades have been huge contributors this season). If the Cubs find teams that value players like Castro or Samardzija or Russell or Marmol (or some other guy who comes up next year and has success), you never know how quickly this thing can turn.
After watching "Moneyball", I have a better appreciation for the accomplishments in Oakland. I know that Hollywood provided the spin, however I like to see teams like the A's and Orioles develop the chemistry and teams to compete with the Yankees payroll.

The challenges that the A's in particular face remind me a lot of the White Sox. From a fan and attendance perspective, they are the second team in a market competing against a NL franchise that is popular with the press and that plays in a ballpark which is an attraction in itself.

However, I have to admit that I take sick pleasure in watching the Cubs again implode to 101 losses in 2012 and are stuck again in a rebuilding mode while I watch Soriano completely butcher routine plays in left field and hit useless solo home runs while the team is losing.

Last edited by Red Barchetta; 10-05-2012 at 12:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:47 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 13,738
Default

What are we at right now? 104 years right? Downright embarrassing,
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRy33ukckCs

it's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you.

http://arsenalist.com/video/?id=xh2dx6

Greatest Arsenal goal I have ever witnessed. Chills to this day watching it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:01 PM
DumpJerry's Avatar
DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
Tom Feargal Hagen
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The hearts and minds of Sox fans on 10-26-05
Posts: 25,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
What are we at right now? 104 years right? Downright embarrassing,
"We?" Who is "we?"



For a good laugh, ask a Cub fan who believes in Theo to tell you about the last time Theo successfully built a MLB team from the pits to The Trophy. While you're at it, ask the Cubbie about all the times Theo has done it. The blank look you'll get is priceless.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-06-2012, 09:43 PM
Smokey Burg Smokey Burg is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Aurora
Posts: 432
Default

I've seen enough Cub rebuiling plans to last the rest of my lifetime. I truly believe that if they went out and filled in a few holes when they had their winning streak in June-July that they would have been competitive until the end of the season. Instead, they gut the team for a bunch of AA players most of whom probably will not make it to MLB. I don't expect to see Cubs in post season play for a long time.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-06-2012, 10:12 PM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,312
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey Burg View Post
I've seen enough Cub rebuiling plans to last the rest of my lifetime. I truly believe that if they went out and filled in a few holes when they had their winning streak in June-July that they would have been competitive until the end of the season. Instead, they gut the team for a bunch of AA players most of whom probably will not make it to MLB. I don't expect to see Cubs in post season play for a long time.
But what would have been the point of being competitive when you outdraw most franchises anyway? You also still have good revenue from TV.

So many teams are better right now in the NL. I actually am fine with them taking it slow. If the Sox can wake up and get another title, I won't care. Their relevance in Chicago depends on the Cubs' failure.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-06-2012, 11:09 PM
cub killer cub killer is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,119
Default

Spot on. Let the losing continue.

__________________
The regular season is merely the qualifying phase for the playoffs. The regular season does not determine the best team, nor the order of who is best.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-08-2012, 09:39 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Des Plaines
Posts: 1,860
Default

That was a lot of words that didn't really get to a point.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:45 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.