Kenny Speaks

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by Noneck

Teams dont need the bar, restaurant, nightlife scene to draw fans.

No, they don't - but when your 8-mile-away competition for fans has that, you kinda do need it.

[jabrch]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

The heat did not stop other teams from drawing 3 million.
We can talk about this until we are blue in the face, the fans did not come out this year because they rebelled against the high ticket prices to go along with the dynamic pricing BS.

Poppycock.

There are tons of ways fans can come to a game and not pay "high ticket prices" relative to any other major market...

The problem is we have FANS and we have BANDWAGGONERS and the difference between 1.5 and 3mm for us is the difference between getting the bandwaggoners to show up.

[Noneck]

Originally Posted by kittle42

No, they don't - but when your 8-mile-away competition for fans has that, you kinda do need it.

Are all baseball fans the same as the ones that go to games 8 miles north?

[tebman]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Biggest problem with U.S. Cellular Field is that it's a park designed for the suburbs that got dropped in the city. People make fun of Wrigley for being a bar with a field in the middle of it, but that helps it anchor one of Chicago's most lively entertainment districts, even though it's farther away from the central core than Bridgeport. Sox Park was a soulless, sterile shopping mall with a field in the middle. It was designed to be built in some suburban wasteland like Addison or wherever, not to anchor a thriving urban neighborhood.

Jerry and Rocky are learning this lesson with the United Center, which has absolutely killed gentrification on the West Side, but luckily, Rocky's not a stubborn old man like his dad, and they're starting to chip away at the parking lots in favor of more urban-friendly development.

Originally Posted by 16th&State

I would seem wise now, but the South Loop was hardly a hopping place-to-be until recent years. This is of course my opinion, but I'm sure many of the same criticism bestowed on Comiskey II and the area surrounding would have been said about even a Camden-style retro park until the neighborhood caught up.

The Sox had an agreement in 1986 with Harold Washington's administration to join in a South Loop baseball/football stadium. The Bears didn't want to do it. Talks dragged on and at the same time the Sox were buying property in Addison as a Plan B (or maybe it was Plan A). Then Washington died within a year and threw all the discussions into a cocked hat.

When the Sox pushed hard for a move to Addison, they came with architects' plans ready to go. Looking at the drawings you can clearly see what later became Comiskey Park II/USCF. It was cheaper and quicker to not redesign the park once the 35th Street site was chosen, though the park's design was intended for a suburban cornfield site.

That whole melodrama was a convergence of bad architectural timing (retro ballparks hadn't yet been considered), unlucky political timing (Washington's death, an unfriendly state legislature), and clumsy White Sox public relations (fill in any number of examples here). In the end I'm glad the park is located where it is, but I just wish it had been designed in the first place to be more like the original park. The later USCF remodeling was a huge improvement but they're still stuck with suburban parking lots and too many luxury suites.

An exciting, competitive team is the first priority. Beyond that they need to color outside the lines: Parking lot food carts? Ten-dollar upperdeck seats? CTA discount packages? Reduced-price parking for cars with three or more people? Balloons for the kiddies? What's needed is imagination to go on top of a winning team.

[hawkjt]

Could not help but notice the big sign in Oakland Coliseum yesterday in their big game vs the Rangers that advertised a Friday Nite family special that gave 4 tickets and 4 meals for 40 dollars.....nice promotion for families.

[LITTLE NELL]

Originally Posted by jabrch

Poppycock.

There are tons of ways fans can come to a game and not pay "high ticket prices" relative to any other major market...

The problem is we have FANS and we have BANDWAGGONERS and the difference between 1.5 and 3mm for us is the difference between getting the bandwaggoners to show up.

We had a first place club for the whole summer so where were all these bandwagoners?

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by Noneck

Are all baseball fans the same as the ones that go to games 8 miles north?

Many casual ones are.

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

We had a first place club for the whole summer so where were all these bandwagoners?

I guess you have to be in the playoffs before anyone jumps on!

The Sox just don't have that large of a fanbase. The problem is even the diehards aren't going as much.

[LITTLE NELL]

Originally Posted by kittle42

I guess you have to be in the playoffs before anyone jumps on!

The Sox just don't have that large of a fanbase. The problem is even the diehards aren't going as much.

And if the diehards aren't going it's because it costs too damn much.

[bunkaroo]

Originally Posted by kittle42

I'm waiting for someone to explain how heat - like the economy - impacts Sox fans more than other human beings.

As I've already said, it affected me in the Chicago metro area. Whether the heat and its relative humidity in other parts of the country where they play baseball had a similar impact, I can't say. I am proof of at least one person who would have attended more games in the summer if it was more comfortable out. I'm guessing there are others who felt the same way, even if it's not a ton of people.

[bunkaroo]

Never knew that about Addison - I was only 11 when that stuff was happening. My family is from Bridgeport and I spent many summer nights watching the fireworks from the back porch on Parnell. Can't imagine the Sox not being down there.

That said, Addison would be extremely more convenient for me these days. I'd probably have a quarter season package minimum if they were out in the west burbs.

[16th&State]

Originally Posted by tebman

The Sox had an agreement in 1986 with Harold Washington's administration to join in a South Loop baseball/football stadium. The Bears didn't want to do it. Talks dragged on and at the same time the Sox were buying property in Addison as a Plan B (or maybe it was Plan A). Then Washington died within a year and threw all the discussions into a cocked hat.

When the Sox pushed hard for a move to Addison, they came with architects' plans ready to go. Looking at the drawings you can clearly see what later became Comiskey Park II/USCF. It was cheaper and quicker to not redesign the park once the 35th Street site was chosen, though the park's design was intended for a suburban cornfield site.

That whole melodrama was a convergence of bad architectural timing (retro ballparks hadn't yet been considered), unlucky political timing (Washington's death, an unfriendly state legislature), and clumsy White Sox public relations (fill in any number of examples here). In the end I'm glad the park is located where it is, but I just wish it had been designed in the first place to be more like the original park. The later USCF remodeling was a huge improvement but they're still stuck with suburban parking lots and too many luxury suites.

An exciting, competitive team is the first priority. Beyond that they need to color outside the lines: Parking lot food carts? Ten-dollar upperdeck seats? CTA discount packages? Reduced-price parking for cars with three or more people? Balloons for the kiddies? What's needed is imagination to go on top of a winning team.

Awesome post! Thanks for the insight! The minutia of it all was a bit before my time. I knew of the Addison plans but had never seen the skeches/mock-ups. I will take original Comiskey II over anything in Addison for certain. But after reading a few articles this afternoon about South Loop plans, it really is sad that politic and happenstance led to a suburban park dropped into a sea of urban parking lots. Oh what could have been!? I do love what the US Cellular renovations have brought and I happily take in as many Sox games as I can attend!! I look forward to what Kenny & Co can and will do this offseason to put a winner on the field!

[LITTLE NELL]

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

As I've already said, it affected me in the Chicago metro area. Whether the heat and its relative humidity in other parts of the country where they play baseball had a similar impact, I can't say. I am proof of at least one person who would have attended more games in the summer if it was more comfortable out. I'm guessing there are others who felt the same way, even if it's not a ton of people.

St. Louis is usually hotter than Chicago and they had no trouble drawing 40,000 a game.
Drove up to Chicago back in 2008 and we saw a Saturday afternoon game against the Rays and it was in the mid 90s but there were 36,000 in the park. We also drove up last year and saw the Tigers and Sox on a very hot day and there were 29,000 for a Wednesday afternoon game.

[bunkaroo]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

St. Louis is usually hotter than Chicago and they had no trouble drawing 40,000 a game.
Drove up to Chicago back in 2008 and we saw a Saturday afternoon game against the Rays and it was in the mid 90s but there were 36,000 in the park. We also drove up last year and saw the Tigers and Sox on a very hot day and there were 29,000 for a Wednesday afternoon game.

Ok, so we've established I'm the only one who stays home when it's too damn hot out.

[LITTLE NELL]

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

Ok, so we've established I'm the only one who stays home when it's too damn hot out.

I'm sure you are not the only one but even if its hot, where was the advance sale for a team thats in first place? I think back in early June, Brooks said that the Sox had to put on extra people for the demand for tickets, looks like there was not that much of a demand.