Pirates: 20 straight years of losing seasons

[AZChiSoxFan]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

We could have had a park like Camden Yards and PNC Park but JR and Co. nixed it, instead we got 2 tiers of suites and a club level section that gave us the steepest upper deck in MLB. Comiskey II was just about the most sterile park ever built, operating rooms should be so sterile. At least JR saw the error of his ways and came up with a park that has a little more character but still no PNC Park.

As far as the Bucs go, I thought that this was the year that they would break that horrible streak.

I'm glad you included the part I highlighted. Yes, when it opened, it left a lot to be desired. But since the renovations, it's a very nice park, IMO.

For the record, you haven't seen sterile until you've been to a game at Chase Field in Phx. I've been to 20 ballparks and that place set a whole new standard for sterile.

[Golden Sox]

Former sportswriter /lifelong White Sox fan Bill Gleason told me that the Old Comiskey Park should of been rebuilt. He thought the White Sox could of played at Soldier Field as it was being rebuilt. Needless to say that didn't happen.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by Golden Sox

Former sportswriter /lifelong White Sox fan Bill Gleason told me that the Old Comiskey Park should of been rebuilt. He thought the White Sox could of played at Soldier Field as it was being rebuilt. Needless to say that didn't happen.

That reminds me of Sam Smith's idea when the Soldier Field renovation talks were just talks. He wanted to wrap around the upper deck of Comiskey II and have the Bears move there, while sinking a baseball stadium into Soldier Field and having the columns be an icon on either side of the field, while also not having a new monstrosity dwarfing them on the outside. I always found that idea interesting, if impractical.

[SI1020]

Originally Posted by AZChiSoxFan

I'm glad you included the part I highlighted. Yes, when it opened, it left a lot to be desired. But since the renovations, it's a very nice park, IMO.

For the record, you haven't seen sterile until you've been to a game at Chase Field in Phx. I've been to 20 ballparks and that place set a whole new standard for sterile.

Have you been to the Tropicana Dome?

[SI1020]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Don't worry about them, I'm sure they will be able to draft and develop another 24 productive Major League players, because I have been told numerous times that all teams need to do to win is stink for a years, stock up on prospects (who never fail, of course!!!) and sit back and count the championships. Works. Every. Time.

Talent wins games. Sometimes you buy that talent. Sometimes you trade for it and sometimes you even draft it and then develop it. To be successful over the long haul, you need a balanced approach.

[Hendu]

Originally Posted by DSpivack

I think it's more psychology and perception than the actual pitch of the deck. Not having a roof until the 2003 renovation I think gave off the perception that it was much steeper than it actually is, as you look up when you're walking and see sky. I would doubt that the pitch is any steeper than the UDs in Seattle, Arizona, Milwaukee, Houston, Toronto, Miami or Oakland. I think a lot perception, besides the psychology involved in walking up the stairs in the UD, is based on the unfairly poor reputation and stereotyping of USCF in general among the local and national media.

I think a lot of has to do with the couple stories of suites between the UD and the lower level. Most of the other newer stadiums I've been to, you don't feel as far removed from the lower deck because there's another regular deck in between. Also, the enclosed UD concourse at the Cell kinda sucks.

PatK is spot on. When New Comiskey was built, the Skydome was all the rage. It's what people wanted at the time. Who knew that style would become dated within a few years.

[SI1020]

Originally Posted by Hendu

I think a lot of has to do with the couple stories of suites between the UD and the lower level. Most of the other newer stadiums I've been to, you don't feel as far removed from the lower deck because there's another regular deck in between. Also, the enclosed UD concourse at the Cell kinda sucks.

PatK is spot on. When New Comiskey was built, the Skydome was all the rage. It's what people wanted at the time. Who knew that style would become dated within a few years.

Camden Yards opened in 1992 and was an instant hit. Many baseball fans complained for decades about the colorless sterile box stadiums many teams were playing in. Sorry, but I believe that once again the Reinsdorf braintrust blew it.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by Hendu

I think a lot of has to do with the couple stories of suites between the UD and the lower level. Most of the other newer stadiums I've been to, you don't feel as far removed from the lower deck because there's another regular deck in between. Also, the enclosed UD concourse at the Cell kinda sucks.

PatK is spot on. When New Comiskey was built, the Skydome was all the rage. It's what people wanted at the time. Who knew that style would become dated within a few years.

I'm pretty sure that Camden Yards has two levels of suites and a club level in between the lower and upper decks. Maybe the difference there is that the club level at USCF sticks out from the structure of the park, whereas at places like Camden Yards it's built in together; the suites are behind it recessed into the structure, as opposed to the other way around at USCF.

In terms of measuring height and pitch of the UD, I would doubt that USCF is any worse than any of the other new stadiums, especially the handful of stadiums with retractable roofs.

[Lip Man 1]

In the book "Ballpark: The Building of Camden Yards..." the author specifically quotes a representative from the HOK company which built both Camden Yards and the new Comiskey Park as saying they offered the 'Camden Yards' style specifically to JR and he said no for what that's worth.

Why he did so, the author never stated and I suspect that is a real mystery.

Lip

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

In the book "Ballpark: The Building of Camden Yards..." the author specifically quotes a representative from the HOK company which built both Camden Yards and the new Comiskey Park as saying they offered the 'Camden Yards' style specifically to JR and he said no for what that's worth.

Why he did so, the suthor never stated and I suspect that is a real mystery.

Lip

Was that style more expensive?

[Lip Man 1]

Spivak:

That could be part of it although remember new Comiskey came in under budget (I always wondered where the money saved went? Back to the taxpayers??)

I suspect part of it was no one knew the Camden Yards look (retro) would take off and that JR wanted to have everything in house as far as shops, food options...he didn't want to allow the possibility of things springing up which could take away some of the income directly from the organization.

There's probably other reasons as well.

Lip